Hot and Cold: The Archetype of Mars Saturn Aspect
Mars is your inner warrior. If you have a healthy Mars, you’re able to assert yourself in relationships, speak up in order to persuade others, and take action to achieve your goals.
Saturn (when developed) acts as your inner “wise old man.” At other times, Saturn is your inner giant that swallows your creativity and positive motivation (recall the myth of Cronus eating his children.) In early life, Saturn most often represents the father.
Mars and Saturn do not always get along, because Mars is hot and Saturn is cold (in a psychological sense). When you have these two planets in hard aspect (conjunction, square or opposition), you’ll most likely experience challenges in integrating both energies successfully. In this article, we’ll explore the dark side of Mars Saturn aspects (especially conjunction, square or opposition) and then look at ways to unlock their constructive expression.
Mars conjunct square opposition Saturn: The Father Wound
The Shadow Side of Masculinity
Unless your natal Mars or Saturn happens to be well placed (in Capricorn, for example), hard aspects between them tend to be experienced in their shadow form, at least in the beginning.
In their shadow form, Saturn suppresses Mars, and Mars wounds Saturn. As a result, Mars conjunct, square or opposition Saturn could be experienced as negative expressions of masculine principle. In early life, this tends to manifest as father wounds.
What’s a father wound?
As a young child, your father was the model of masculine authority – he was possibly the highest authority in your world. If your emotional bond with your father was strong and supportive, you were able to grow with confidence in your ability to assert yourself and assume responsibility in the world.
If your father was emotionally absent, excessively angry or irresponsible, you may have grown up with a father wound that resulted in underdeveloped masculinity (regardless of your gender.) Until you get to the root of the father wound, you may feel a sense of weakness or even futility when trying to assert yourself or to accomplish your goals in the world.
What people do when they feel weak…
Is they overcompensate and try to act strong. Mars-Saturn aspects’ reputation for ruthless, controlling and even brutal behaviors could actually be originating from a deep feeling of powerlessness. Such dominant behaviors are usually a repeat of the father’s pattern (who in turn may have been overcompensating for his own sense of powerlessness.)
What doesn’t go out, must go in
The alternative manifestation of Mars conjunct, square or opposition Saturn is “suppressed anger.” If expressing anger against your father was not safe, then you may have had to hold the anger inside, learning not to assert yourself while seething with resentment on the inside.
It’s easy to imagine how either of the above patterns could create problems in later life.
Working Toward Resolution: Healing the Father Wound
These shadow manifestations are indeed challenging, and quite common among people with a highly stressed or retrograde Saturn. With Saturn Mars aspect in particular, there seems to be difficulty with the emotions of anger as well as constructive self-assertion.
While there are no quick fixes, recognizing the father wound and accepting its pain is certainly the beginning of healing. By separating from the dysfunctional patterns modeled by your father, you’ll be able to choose a different, wiser application of your energy.
Now we’ll look at more positive expressions of Mars Saturn aspects.
Mars conjunct square opposition Saturn: Constructive Paths
Wisdom guides Force
In a constructive scenario, Saturn sets a positive direction for Mars, and Mars acts to realize Saturn’s long range goals.
Necessary Control of Anger
From experience, you learn how to work with anger in relationships. You’ve learned that dominating or controlling others do not work, and neither did suppressing anger.
What you’ve learned is a middle path – a conscious restraint of the anger that you fully feel. This is zen territory, and monks talk about it. One book I highly recommend in this regard is Robert Bly’s A little book on the human shadow, where the poet discusses this very process.
Ambition and Effort
Once Mars’ energy is released from suppression and resentment, Mars-Saturn combination acquires clarity of purpose and disciplined, patient action. In short, they tend to become unstoppable, especially if aided by boosters such as Jupiter or Pluto.
Noel Tyl uses phrases like “Resourcefulness” and “Indomitable Will” to describe Mars Saturn aspect. Once the emotional stoppage is removed, your doors to achievements open. You can direct this energy in any arena – physical, intellectual, spiritual or organizational.
Recap: Mars Saturn Aspect Interpretation – Shadow vs Wisdom
To recap the discussion of Mars Saturn conjunction, square or opposition, we’ll consider each aspect separately and explore their shadow side vs conscious expression. Note that, although some subtle differences exist based on the type of aspect, many qualities will be interchangeable between all 3 aspects.
Mars Conjunct Saturn
Core Theme: Identification with father’s values. Focused energy.
Shadow Manifestation: If your father held negative views about you and/or himself, you might have accepted the limiting perception about yourself as truth. As a result, you may be repeating much of the disempowering, frustrated patterns your father exhibited.
Conscious Expression: Once you’re able to separate from your identification with your father’s destructive patterns (or, if you are able to identify with his positive patterns), you’ll gain a stronger sense of self, able to achieve new heights in life through focused effort.
Mars Square Saturn
Core Theme: Tension and Development.
Shadow Manifestation: Your father may have displayed much of the negative masculine traits discussed in this article. As a result you might repeat the pattern of dominance and overcompensation, or let your frustration and resentment implode within.
Conscious Expression: Once you begin healing the father wounds and let go of stored resentment, there will be considerable energy available for long term development. This aspect suggests indomitable will.
Mars Opposition Saturn
Core Theme: Awareness and Projection.
Shadow Manifestation: You project a lot of the negative masculine quality in others – especially your boss (authority figure) or your spouse. As a result you keep blaming others for your frustration in life, feeling powerless.
Conscious Expression: Once you are able to withdraw the projection of angry, dominant behaviors from others, you recognize these qualities inside of you and can integrate them. Afterwards you act with conscious awareness of the power of anger within, no longer a victim. You learn to assert yourself successfully, with patience and wisdom.
Do you have Mars Saturn aspect? How do you experience it?
Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences in the comments section.
Photo: Jim Sneddon
Hello Hiroki,
Your writing on Mars Saturn is insightful .
I have the 1947 version; in Leo. In a time when it was considered children should be seen and not heard. ( I have Mercury squaring Saturn and Pluto.)
I like the way you present your explanations.
Karen Elizabeth.
Hi Karen, Thank you for sharing your experience! I’ve removed your birth info, as this is a public forum.
I had to shed some tears while reading this, I’m currently in the middle of finding therapists for the deep-seated familial wounds of mine often manifested in suppressed anger and projections, and lately, the need to unearth the patterns in my behavior caused by my father wounds has been LOUD (can you tell venus is retrograding in my 12h right now?). I have 10h Mars opp 4h Saturn, family circumstances became a blockage for emotional/creative expression from early on. I lost my father at a young age in a way that he estranged himself from our family, who suffered so much from his violence, and I was left as a young child to mend the broken bridges caused by his actions. I’m seeking therapy now to treat my inner child with compassion and hopefully create a safe space to nurture my expression.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Mars opposite Saturn. Hope you can find a good therapist that can help you through the healing process.
Beautiful article, it had opened up so much honesty and seeing.
I have Saturn/Uranus in Sagittarius square mars retrograde in Aries. It’s out of sign but has 4 degrees orb. Going from the 4th to the 7th houses. Mars in the 7th.
My self expression was controlled by my father. He wished me to become like him, a snob in arts and academia. He has very high IQ and due to this thinks his understanding of what’s good and bad to be the truth. My self expression is therefore warped and often it’s his ideas of how I should be that comes through. Or, the shut down of myself. Self blame. Whenever I try to share of myself it can come out in ways that feel off to people. If I share of my insecurities it can be met with anger, blame or indifference.
But I can also be ignorant about how my insecurities might effect another person. There is a self absorbtion in the wounding that wants to be understood so much it doesn’t see that others might have the same wish. I believe it’s a projection on others in the square to the 7th that others sets the rules indiscriminately and therefore ones own position of being the underdog is legitimized. Whereas others might also feel the same way.
For me it’s been about reclaiming who can control me. My father would say jump and I would jump. Right up until I became a woman and he withdrew because those traits felt like I abandoned him. I should have become like him.
It’s not surprising that as an adult I found a partner that was controlling and cold. During my Saturn return I divorced him. Now I face burnout.
The perpetual question for me has been who do people want me to be now? And it’s created a deep sense of depressive resentment that feel utterly indifferent to people and their constant wants for me.
Learning non violent communication has helped greatly for me as well as therapy and really letting people react to me and staying silent. Usually they realize what their projection was and apologies when I stay calm. If I become defensive i am definitely painted as unreasonable and overreacting.
It could be such simple thing as sharing that I didn’t want my mother to make my bed in my own home, that I appreciated her doing it but I prefer to do it myself. Or sharing that I would rather speak for myself when me and my ex was asked a question by a doctor directed at the both of us. Or sharing an insecurity about the way I express attraction. All of them resulting in anger and hurt in others. It really asks me to stand firm in that this is what is still important to me and if you will make it into me hurting them, I will have to leave.
This aspect also has a theme of differentiating between unhealthy compromise and tolerance versus healthy compromise and thriving. The silencing that happens turns to such hate and denial of self existance.
Hi Gyra, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with Saturn square Mars. Uranus intensifies this combination, and Mars retrograde makes it a bit more complex (the energy tends to go in before it goes out). Looks like you’re becoming quite aware of how best to direct the assertive energy in relationships.
It’s been on my mind and coming up for healing.
When going back to the childhood wounding I meet a child who is sitting with her hands crossed and her mouth shut tight. There is no reasurrance for her, she is alone and nobody cares that she is breaking inside. She refuses to express it, she just sits there. Her last foothold is her indifference. She won’t partake in life as a real person, just an indifferent shell. She is thin and she doesn’t want to eat.
I’m learning how to reassure this child from the inside. To show I’m there for her.
Hi Hiroki,
This is very helpful in making sense of my Saturn Mars placement. Thank you.
I have Saturn- pluto – SNode in Scorpio in the 12th H and Sun -moon -Mars NNode in 6th H and its just been intense to say the least and imagine the chaos. But i felt the energy of Saturn Mars in the early years as restriction and anger and father wounding which i projected later onto the masculine on the whole. Once i started the emotional healing work, and released a lot of anger, i felt a lot more clearer and calmer, but my Mars energy dissipated and without any drive or force. There is currently a lack of clarity of purpose as well as the energy to take action.
Hi Tara, thank you for sharing your experience with Saturn opposing Mars. That is a very powerful energy surrounding this opposition – it seems like this Mars needs practical purpose..
Hey Hiroki,
Really love your insights on the Father Wounds. Also thank you for taking the time to reply to these comments. I have Venus and Saturn in Aries 2nd house with a Mars RX Libra in the 8th house. I’ve really been trying to understand this interesting conjunction especially since Mars and Venus swaps sign & opposites each other. I had early childhood family troubles with female maids, explosive anger causing love withdrawal and eventually leading sexual repression. How can I heal this?
Hi Hiroki,
So good to read your thoughts on this aspect. I have it very strongly, in my 10th saturn-Gemini/mars-taurus, opp Neptune in the 4th… it’s actually part of a grand sextile (trines pluto and NN) with sextiles to the sun and the moon (sun, moon, and Neptune are a grand fire trine). My dad was a fireman, he went on to be in charge of 11 rigs in the north sea, health and safety manager. I adored him, but I was angry too. He drank heavily when home and was away the rest of the time. We did have adventures and would go exploring, we also had massive rows; a lot. So much more to this story, enough to say, I have struggled with inbalance through many challenges; I feel strong, healed, and unstoppable :) on a good day!
Hi Ruth, thank you for sharing your experience with Saturn conjunct Mars, opposing Neptune. The fact that this opposition lies within the parental axis (4-10th house) emphasizes the importance of your father’s influence.
Hi Hiroki,
I’ve personally got Mars conjunct Saturn in Scorpio 12th whole sign house along with Pluto. I’ve hear so many terrible things about the 12th house and then to add all the malefics in my chart into one “terrible” house has upset me in the past.
However, I don’t see these placements as terrible at all. I find it to be a huge inner source of power and quite transformational. I consider this placement in my chart my house of guardian angels. The older I get the more in control I am and the better I can read people and situations. Although I can only read the hidden and crappy part about people, i’d like to think my Pisces Sun helps level it all out. I don’t know. I don’t think the 12th house is at all scary. When people can tap into those placements and use them for good, I think it becomes a place of power that no one can ever take away from you. That’s all. Thanks for read :)
Hi Brittany, thank you for sharing your experience and good thoughts about the Mars Saturn conjunction in the 12th house. I fully agree!
How would you interpret a quincunx aspect between Mars and Saturn? I have a fairly tight one (less than two degrees) between my 4th house Saturn in Sag and 9th house Mars in Taurus. Mars has only hard aspects w/ other planets, and Saturn trines my 12th house Venus/Uranus conjunction.
Hi Barbara, Mars quincunx Saturn would have a similar tone to hard aspects. The meaning of quincunx is “adjustment” so there is initially a mismatch between where you’re focusing your energy and where you actually need to improve. Through trial and error, feedback, coaching etc, you’ll learn where this tends to occur and make that adjustment.
I’m a single mom (dad never in picture, he was abusive and I fled) to a son who has square saturn mars. Saturn in 5th Sagittarius and Mars Pisces 8th. He’s 4 and has never once asked about not having a dad. He sees his grandparents (gpa is a father figure) every day for a few hours.
I’m wondering what I can do to help this aspect in regards to be single parent. Lately he’s been having serious anger outbursts. I was thinking it could be this. I’m just worried, his temper is so bad. He’s very sweet when he’s not acting like this.
Hi Sarah, in this situation, your son needs to find constructive ways to express his Mars energy. Having a male role model that can teach him to do that can be significant support (an example, perhaps as he gets a bit older, could include enrolling him in a martial art class, etc).
Mars in th could meditate, do art, spiritual activities, dance, listen to music, write poetry, connect with music, etc to transform. Martial arts could work, but could also expend too much energy for pisces mars. Just my opinion… I also have mars in pisces, but a different house.
What an insightful and correct perspective on the matter!
I have Saturn (Libra 2nd house) opposite Mars, Venus and Sun (Aries 8th house) and have spent a large part of my life struggling with this father wound and multiple traumas in my personal, professional and even spiritual life. Absent father and a psychologically ill mother. But I also saw the results of very hard work and even though according to societal norms I would have ended up as a tragedy in statistics I had the willpower to overcome the hardest of life struggles and gain wisdom out of it. The struggle with these planets is a hard one and one that seems it might continue for a lifetime. Yet at the same time at every obstacle it gives wisdom, insight, true willpower and humbleness if you can shift from pain into wisdom. Self contol is the biggest power of them all indeed and perhaps the best gift of this painful set of oppositions. One that many people lack and that can take you very far in life. Thank you Hiroki Niizato, what an insight!
Hello Kez, thank you for sharing your experience with Saturn opposite Mars, Venus and Sun and discussing the importance of self-control.
Enlightening piece. I always only read negative aspects of this combination. Very few astrologers suggest how to overcome the hurdles and use the Mars Saturn aspects to one’s benefit. The two planets are conjunct in Scorpio for me. I identify with the father complex except that in my case it was my mom. Maybe because my moon is in Capricorn and my mom takes the Saturnian qualities. She is a strict disciplinarian with very high standards for what her children should achieve. I seldom heard any praises from her growing up. I felt devoid of the comfort and that fuzziness one associates with motherly love. I grew up with a massive desire to prove my self and it came from a sense of low self esteem because nothing I did was ever enough. It worked in my favor…I am a doctor now and love my work. But I still feel like subconsciously I mirror a lot of my mom’s thoughts and ideologies. As I grow older I realize I’m not her. Don’t get me wrong…she is a dynamic and inspiring woman but I’m my own person. As I evolve more into myself I realize I don’t always need to be scared of failing, I don’t need to be jealous of other people’s success or try and suppress my fun spontaneous side. I have seen that in Scorpio this conjunction can cause unfounded fears. I am allowed to fail and that’s ok. It’s more important to take that action…if I fall I’ll get up and try again. Resilience is not a problem for this combination….the fear of starting is. “paralysis by analysis” sums up this combination very well. It’s a life long endeavor to balance the energy of Mars with the caution of Saturn.
Hi Geet, Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with Mars conjunct Saturn in Scorpio. What you’ve written is very wise!
Wow! I really resonate with this website. having Mars oppose Saturn is hard. Especially when it is part of my Cardinal T-Square, (dominant planet and in 13 degrees) Mars in Capricorn (1H) square Jupiter in Libra (10H) square Saturn in Cancer (7H). The suppressed anger with my father is very hard for me growing up, it feels like I can’t fully open up myself to him. Sometimes, I subconsciously projecting those traits I don’t like from my father to my friends. I hope I can grow more as an individual. Thank you!!
Hi Tyrone, thank you for sharing your experience and insight with Mars opposing Saturn.
Thank you for the article. I have Saturn in Scorpio exactly square Mars in Aquarius at 23 degrees. I also have South node conjunct Saturn at 27 degrees, so Mars is also square the nodes. My father was an alcoholic who often lost his job so my mother had to work all day to support us and then they divorced when I was 8. Then, when I was 12, my stepfather moved in with us – he was an abusive, aggressive and stupid men who made our life hell and my mother couldn’t kick him out until 3 years ago when she obtained a court order but even then he wouldn’t move out at first. As an adult I’ve always had fears in general, I’ve never had a relationship (but I do make friends easily and have long-lasting relationships with them), and I’ve always worked as a freelancer (I own my small business) because in my country/city it’s hard to get a job, and I really crave for financial security (but somehow I’ve never lacked anything, I’ve always been able to live decently). In the past 3 years I’ve been a lot better, I’ve read a lot of psychology books and I’ve done courses and thus I found out a lot of things. I feel like I’m improving every day.
My Solar Arc Mars just entered 0 degrees Aries and my Solar Arc Saturn will enter Capricorn in a few months. I don’t know what this means, but I do feel a lot of drive for new things in my life (which I never felt before).
Hello Dana,
Thank you for sharing your experience with Saturn square Mars. Solar Arc Mars and Saturn reaching the Aries Points (0 cardinal) sound significant – probably a beginning of something new. I can see you using that drive to productive ends!
i loved this article! i was wondering how you thought having the opposition with saturn in aries (fall) 3H and consequently, mars in libra (detriment) 9H would affect the dynamic. could it somehow make it less harsh because the energy is weaken or would it more likely make the energy unstable and harder to balance? also worth noting the mars is retrograde as well. so even less aggression? or (i read somewhere) that it just makes the energy more internally expressed? i guess im really just trying to understand the relationship between these planetary energies given the signs are fall and detriment…
Hi there, dignities wouldn’t necessarily dampen the psychological dynamic of the Saturn Mars opposition. In your case, the energies can get expressed mentally, since the opposition resides in the 3-9 house axis. Mars retrograde could also suggest a less direct expression of the Mars energy (internal expression, or a tendency to suppress the aggression).
This is a great article thank you! I do not have this aspect in my natal chart, but I have it coming up as a transit shortly. I have just made a statement to the police regarding historic sex abuse regarding my father! I do not feel angry or sorry for myself, I would just like him to be accountable for his actions. I think the way this transit will play out, is ‘his’ anger, I am completely estranged from my family so I refuse to allow any projection whatsoever. I have made friends with Carl Jung and and Budha and these fabulous examples of ‘enlightened male’ keep me sane. I also have Uranus square Mars coming up at the same time. (yikes!) wish me luck
Hi Jane, this is a difficult situation, but sounds like you’re standing up to make yourself heard. Be safe and have compassionate, understanding friends for support.
Such a helpful read, thank you! I have Mars in Gemini, 6th house (10 degrees) square Saturn in the 3rd (11 degrees) This also happens to be my closest square also. I think it has brought a lot of tension to my life. My father was a meth addict and caused lots of hardship and drama to our lives. Although my parents were separated we still visited my dad often, but not as much when we got older. Now I’m not sure if this covers my step dad as well but he for sure has some angers issues and that caused a whole other toxic situation with our family. My mom and him were extremely strict when we were growing up. Although we weren’t horrible kids we were constantly getting scolded at for small things.
I also thought about it and figured my sister should have an aspect similar to this because her and I share the same parents, unlike my other half siblings. Well I looked at her chart and sure enough she has her mars conjunct saturn. Not sure if I’m correct but just figured she should have something similar that plays out in her chart too.
Unfortunately I have turned to many of the poorer traits in my chart and think I’m very cold and cruel. I remind myself of my stepdad which is something I hate about myself, so so much. I’m trying to figure this aspects and other aspects in my chart and going to try to heal from them so I can grow and become free of this person I’ve become.
Hi Kayla, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars square Saturn. Yes, when we grow up with dysfunctional father figures as the model, we often have no choice but to take on some of the characteristics we’ve observed. The beauty of astrology is that you can become aware of these patterns and choose to express it at a more constructive level. If you are aware of what you want to improve, I feel you are most of the way there. With the right support from people that can better model the Mars Saturn energy, you can learn to own this pattern in a more empowering way.
Today is my birthday and i have to celebrate it all by myself due to corona virus,,, and i was going thru my natal chart and while examining this aspect i stumbled upon ur page,,, i consider it as a birthday gift!!! It is very insightful and eye-opening for me and im pretty sure i will work on these issues ,,, thank you Hiroki!!! Love and Light
Happy birthday Lina! Glad you enjoyed the article.
Hello, thank you very much for your article. Probably my favorite Mars Saturn article…. I have a grand T square between (Saturn conjunction Uranus, square Mars, Mars square moon, moon square Venus, Venus square Saturn Uranus… And all the opposition’s within) As a adult coming into my prime, I’m feeling, or just now noticing all the interpersonal conflicts I am destined to face…. Growing up I was quite timid. Hardly asserting myself adequately. In my 20’s I began to develop negative, criminal ways to find the respect from others (especially other males) I so craved. I was tired of being walked on, beaten down, and ripped off because I was weak. And it worked. People began to fear me…. But, also in my 20’s I found spirituality and occult secrets; I became aware of the “shadow” and the process of integrating it… I began, just as you spoke of in your article, to find healthy ways to assert myself….. Now, at my present stage of development, I dedicate most of my energy into a very difficult and harsh job in the oilfield. All male in my experience so far. Everyone trying to dominate the other, very physical, in all weather, potentially dangerous, and/or toxic…. Once I found this job, I loved everything about it. Especially the harshness of it. Especially the vast majority of other men coming in, only to tap out and quit….. This job is my school, when an authority is screaming and belittling me I notice his authority, but speak logic into his anger taming his rage. Through tense dangerous situations I keep my mind on safety with my only ego trip is getting the job done. When someone lesser than me tries dominating me, I listen to what he says searching for anything of value in getting the job done. Maybe their idea is superior, even though their position lesser… If me and another have a verbal spat, we talk it out…. But… Where I feel I integrate my shadow…. I do plan to dominate the other men here. In the job I do. I execute every action I can as if I am conducting a sport. As efficient, safe, smart, fast, etc. As possible to be the best. It’s too hot? Shut the fuck up don’t cry keep blasting thru it. You’re soaking wet and it’s 35 degrees STFU and get it done, your strengthening your immune system…. Etc. No excuses. Get it done. 💪 I found your article. And you are good at what you do in my opinion. It’s spot on. Thank you…
Thank you Andrew for sharing your experience with Saturn square Mars – beautifully expressed!
Expressing my anger has always been met with rejections or not being understood since I was a child. It was almost like I’m not allowed emotions. I’m still learning about emotions like anger and self assertion to vulnerability and submissiveness , to loneliness and solitude, and negativity and healthy sadness. I have to figure out which is which. As nobody taught me I have to self parent.
To be honest, I don’t know why Saturn always get bad reputation as limiting, late success, old geezer, curse etc. If only people could take logical approach and take full responsibility… instead of blaming themselves all this happened because of their natal chart, it could be blessing and gift and power.
Actually, I think Saturn aspect or planets falls 10th house in personal planet in relationship could serve as “glue” in synastry,because I have seen long-lasting marriage has A’s Saturn conjuct B’s personal Planet, whether Mars, Venus, Moon,etc, no matter how badly aspected their personal planets to each other.
Unlike 3 outer planets (Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), these planets can’t hold relationship or any other personal planets going crazy…for Uranus(unexpected), Neptune(denial of reality), Pluto( unhealthy dose of possessive behavior). Saturn makes you grounded to reality, offering practical approach to any problem, to see everything beyond “now” for bright future of planning long-term goal. Pain is temporary, quitting is forever. Saturn blessed you to keep going because the reward is so promising. You fall, get up. Fall, get up. Again, and again and again. Your perseverance will paid off. Think about the future, the every infinite possibility if you keep going.
Look at Donald Trump and Bill Gates, they have Venus-Saturn hard aspects. Venus(material security) and power is gained through structured business( Saturn). They reach at the top in the business world.
I am not U.S. citizen, yet I have seen extremely rich people in my country,especially self-made riches have Mars-Saturn hard aspects.
Sometimes turning power of optimism(Jupiter) to reach success (Pluto) into action (Mars)is not even enough. If people are always optimistic all the time, always succeed, and never fail, what happened? The moment they are lost, they are never gonna wake up again. Why? Because they never experience taste of failure as learning process. This is when Saturn come in handy. To try again, learning from mistake, and keep walking, running, even crawling until you reach your goal. Trust your time(Saturn).
For sure. Well said!
Also – something very very similar – was happening with the yod, mars Saturn opposition etc in my solar return chart when I almost died at age 16 – (attempted murder – not my dad lol)
Yes. My brothers and I were all beaten, verbally abused, humiliated regularly. He destroyed one of my brothers, who at 63 has never had a girlfriend. I learned to turn my rage against myself. I’m hurting bad at the moment – simultaneously tryimg to cut ties to my young adult daughters (to spare them being dragged down with me). But also fighting not to run away from them as I have from almost every relationship in my life because they value me highly and have chosen to live with/near me and work with me. I think this happening now makes sense: Saturn is part of a grand trine, but both Saturn n Mars are in a grand Square; both are also in a mystic rectangle. Saturn is Sextile to Neptune and moon conjoined, which are the fulcrum of a yod. (conjunct In Scorpio and part of mystic rectangle too) and both the rectangle, square, trine and Yod are triggering now or in May. Wish me and my darling girls luck :)
Hi Hiroki,
Wow, your description is so accurate! I have Mars conjunct Saturn in the eleventh house and it’s square to the ruler of my chart, Mercury. There were definitely issues of expression in my childhood stemming from a father with immature power issues. However, I consciously work through those as an adult, so hopefully the past will not repeat. I think the configuration and house actually helps to strategically organize groups, for the benefit of all, in ways that cannot be seen by those who are collectively absorbed within it. I’m not the following or leading sort, but can be an accidental catalyst for needed change. It can sometimes make me a short term leader through change or crisis, but I’m always relieved to return the agency afterwards. I also have Pluto in the first house, but it’s retrograde. I think it makes me understand the burden of making others dependent, rather than lusting to take away their power. Pluto is also trine to Mercury. I do tend to make many friends, but only a few would be considered very close. If I am a lone wolf, then I am an unusually friendly one. The Saturn/Mars conjunction is also square to Uranus in the second house and trine to Neptune in the third house, but I haven’t figured out what that might mean. I have both hard and soft aspects to each planet in my chart. I wonder if that softens my hardships, because I do tend to be an optimistic type in spite of everything. I feel that we can’t help what is out of our control, but we can control ourselves to some extent and define our own meaning and sense of self from our unique experiences. Thanks again for your article!
Hi Helen, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars conjunct Saturn. These are good insights! Uranus square Saturn-Mars can suggest a major change in the way this conjunction operates – so the positive, constructive expressions you mention suggest a good direction.
Mars in Aries opp. Saturn 2nd house Scorpio. I have no father (biological father rejected me, step father divorced, moved away). Venus and Chiron in 8th house. I suppose the challenge is about making my own resources instead of depending on others and finding my own courage. I generally find comfort in anger, it’s familiar to me. I use it as fuel.
Hi there, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars opposite Saturn. Mars Saturn certainly has the feel of an anger used in service of ambition or purpose.
Mars/Saturn conjunct in Scorpio, intercepted 4th house. My grandfather was the only father figure I had but passed on when I was fairly young. I can’t say that I remember anything cruel or misaligned about him. My birth father was a mishap from what I’m told and never saw him past 2 or so. Step father was a passive aggressive person. I never felt comfortable because there are just some things you pick up on that you can’t describe until you’re older. My mother, not father, was the brute. If I had to describe her chart or similar I’d word it as mean and childish. I spent my youth living in fear, with a built in guilt complex but was never angry. I never thought of my father because it is what it is. How I could I resent a person I didn’t know. I’m not described as ambitious nor ruthless. Fear overrides those. I didn’t discover my big issue with authority until almost 30. I’d say that my bosses, co workers and partners were forcing me to acknowledge what was really going on by behaving in ways strongly smelling of childhood. I didn’t bury something I did or didn’t know I was aware of. I didn’t push it away either, just didn’t know what to do with a tidal wave of assaults I know I don’t deserve. I could go on about my experiences but end with this.. Around 30 years old, I finally snapped. I let out truths, I spoke up for my self, I gathered strength. I was fearing failure because hurting someone or disappointing other people, even if my insides knew they weren’t worth it, was overwhelming. I allowed people to walk over me, overpower me, have their way with me even though it was never a desire. Ironically, I didn’t release resentment. It wasn’t there until I realized that a wrong needed to be put right. Keeping it ethical. So, I could never quite get into the general interpretations and I’m pretty horrified when I read about cruelty for this aspect for everyone. As a woman, I’d say this has described my intimates in life and relationships with them. Family, co workers, bosses. I prefer to keep my own counsel and judgement. I value peace and it’s elusive sometimes. If and when I do take action, I prefer to get straight to point, only with understanding the emotional atmosphere and person in tow. Some things just aren’t worth the energy drain. Others have been unfortunate enough since Pluto’s ingress into capricorn, to have their ego ripped apart. I’ve known plenty of dirty folks with crazy agendas. Neptune, Jupiter and a couple others, tend to be out of control. Always something up their sleeve. Zero responsibility. With that, people do not deserve to be told that their ‘good karma’ grants them permission to preach lies. Some people reach their desired height but have no conscious toward others when they get there. I don’t think that’s how karma works. Anger is not an enemy, it’s a feeling. Entitlement is more dangerous. That describes the transits of the last decade.
This was very relevant and, strangely enough, I read it right after having talked to my father on the phone and stood up for myself. I have Mars in Aquarius in the 12th house squaring Saturn in Taurus in the 2nd house, and now, at age 49, I feel I am finally able to get a handle on my assertiveness and “indomitable will.” I think if I’d read this earlier in life, I wouldn’t have known it to be so accurate, but now that I’ve started to heal bits and pieces of the “father wound” (irresponsible, addicted to sex, passive, emotionally absent, narcissistic) I’ve been able to own my power. Thanks for the very cogent explanation.
Hi Jesi, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars square Saturn. Good for you!!
Thank you for describing this very heavy aspect in your words. Always helpful to hear more perspectives, it seems as though it’s never enough. I have Mars-Saturn opposition in 4th Taurus & 10th Scorpio respectively & my Sun-Moon-Asc are Aries-Aquarius-Capricorn. On a related note, the current Saturn transit Capricorn feels slow & gloomy, eerily similar to my Saturn return in Scorpio a couple of years ago. Though not as dramatic, it certainly feels Saturnian (blocked, slow, restrainted, limited etc etc).
With these aspects in my chart, I feel lost at the moment. I have always felt the push/pull energy of my natal Mars-Saturn opposition & only recently started learning more about this (since my Saturn return). Often times, the Mars will either jump out & get out of hand to display anger or the Saturnian shadows come out to hurt myself or someone in slow, shadowy, hazy decisions/actions I take. Either way it’s just so hard to find balance or see the signs in time and as a result I am always caught in between, defeated, frustrated, wondering what my purpose (N.node is conjunct my Mars in Taurus 4th) is supposed to be (10th house Saturn in Scorp conjunct S.node) and what I might be doing wrong. Always highly self-critical & assuming the worst. No matter how much soul-searching I do it seems as though there’s more, there’s something out there that I need to be presented with, some clarity, motivation, whatever it is that will help untangle what seems like a very existential aspect in my chart. Potentially due to the North & South nodes mixed in there. Thankfully, a lot of what I’m describing is mental/internal to me. Others will describe my Aries self as high energy, social etc. Wish I could free myself from my internal heavy noise.
Hi SJ, a long standing issue like this might benefit from some therapeutic help, so you can gain some distance and perspective.
I have mars at 2 degrees of Capricorn in the third house, which I believe is quite a good place, and Saturn at 28*57′ in Virgo in my twelfth house, not such a good placement. This, I have been told is not only a square, but a square on the world axis which puts more emphasis on the square, allowing for a 2* orb each side.
My birth father left my mother when I was a baby and I was brought up by my mother and grandparents until my mother remarried, when I was five years old. I was never informed of the upcoming marriage but I remember being told by a distant relative on the day. I can still feel the knife entering my heart as it did on that day. Eventually I went to live with my mother and her new husband when I was nine years old as I missed her. The stepfather started to sexually abuse me within a few months. I have always felt deprived of a father’s love as I never knew what this was. I am full of anger and stress and it has caused years of struggle and at many times, difficulties in my marriage to a wonderful man, who has the patience of a Saint. What I found really difficult to accept was when eventually informing my mother about the real man she had married, she was only concerned about her hurt feelings and showed no compassion towards myself.
I finally found a really good counsellor who allowed me to get rid of most of this anger but I cannot seem to let go of all of it. My health has suffered as a result and at nearly 68 years of age I can honestly say that the situation I have found myself in at times, has nearly ruined and put an end to my life.
Hi Linda, that is a tough burden to bear. I feel it’s never too late to release the anger, so you can live free. Counseling work sounds very helpful – hope you have additional support in your life, as you work on healing the wounds.
Thank you for this article. I have the opposition and it was “activated” by the solar eclipse last August. yoit description of the father wound makes a lot of sense and this article showed me a path to having them work together.
Hi Deb, Thank you for the comment!
At this time mars saturn are conj cap. I don t have any aspect but I had a father problem and was pleased with what you gave us Hiroki.
He died a broken socialist inclined man at 64.
A logger from Norway ancestry he was beaten out by the big guys. He drank. He criticized. He insulted. But was loved. Fast forward this family movie The Cruds? made me cry and want him back. Forgiveness. Somehow I felt I connected with him then (long story short) and thereafter he left spiritual impressions like we re all one.
Then he showed drunk and I lost it. Still hurts.
Myself I stopped fighting with his criticism in 1995 and began a long road to health with a partner. We both had compulsive issues, rec. drugs and drinking, eating disorders and smoking which speaking for myself I m past 20 years now. But I have two children so need to deal with that fall out somewhat too though not too too much. They do well. But that partner he fell back to drinking so this is an issue. I have No urges at all for alcohol or smoking but life is still hard as a woman learning more about womens history and the world in turmoil with Aries I m learning being about surviving. I was looking for an great article and thank u again.
Thank you June for sharing your experience with Saturn Mars conjunction. Much appreciated!
I found this post interesting to think about.
I have a saturn(2 deg gem)-mars(4 deg gem)-venus(29 deg taurus) conjunction in my 12th house.Opposite to that,I have moon(24 deg scorp) and neptune(5 deg sag)
I always had a feeling these 2 houses played a huge role in my life.As far as saturn and the father,my father was a good father,but not the most authoritive.He was a bit emotionally distant,but not cold-just introverted.He did not express anger very well and on the very rare occasions that he did get angry,he tended to be kind of passive aggressive about it.My mother was the active parent who made rules and gave us consequences if we misbehaved.It would appear that my father has quite a few 12th house/piscean sort of qualities.
My own life,I have found that i become motivated to do something I am interested in(mars),then immediately i always get the saturn coming in telling me how i should plan it and how this might not work and this wont work etc etc….by the time saturn is done,mars has lost the energy to get going.Im sure the neptune on the other side aspecting and radiating his piscean unfocused energy doesnt help either.its very difficult for me to sustain motivation.
Having a scorpio moon and aries sun,sometimes i use sheer willpower to push through when excitement and passion fizzle.thanks saturn.lol
though i do find that saturn sometimes is the one who inspires mars through deep thoughts and then it seems to work better.
Im 45 and still dont have a stable career.have started and dropped and started and dropped several.a bit frustrating.
figured i would comment.dont see many conjunctions on this thread.
Hi Erika, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars Saturn conjunction – well said.
Erika, When I saw your post and the date (my Birthday) I said hmmm..message for me? I too have Saturn in Gem. mine is 3rd hs. Im an Aries Asc with Chiron there Sun, Nept in Sag in 8th and Moon, Merc, Mars, Venus all end 7th & 8th hs Lib Sco Just thought that was interesting. Hiroki My Mars is BQ Saturn which I suppose is harmonious. My father took his life on my mothers B-day when I was 15. But my father was and remains one of the most positive aspects of my childhood. We were best friends. He was a professor at an Ivy league University and I am so much my fathers daughter. Thank you for this article as it has helped me to understand better the relationship between the two for charts I am currently working on.
I am libra ascendant i have mars jupiter pluto conjuct in second house/scorpio and saturn retrograde in 5th house/aquarius what you said about father is very much true and because of it all i h’ve very low self esteem i find it difficult to express myself. What can i do to be happy and successful in life
Hi Atul, the key is to recognize the old thought patterns you created because of your relationship with your father. Once you recognize the disempowering patterns, you can work on changing it. It can be a slow process to develop self-awareness of thoughts, but that’s the only way you can be free from negative patterns that you feel stuck in.
I have this, Mars in 10th Conj Moon and Chiron. Oppo Saturn and Uranus in 4th house.
Extremely diffucult. Most things is very delayed. I started for ex University at the age of 29. I’m 30 now. I have hard time to assert myself.
But my problems are not with my father, Its with my mother. I’m university student and I live with my parents since I’m single its no problem.
My mother and I really hurt each other when we get mad at each other.
My father is always working so I don’t have so many problems with him. Although his emotionally hard to connect with, he is softer then my mother towards me. But yes he has never been encouraging when it comes to my studies for ex. He tries to be “realistic” but since I’m not that driven and very pessimistic this has hurt me very much. I need a father thats more like a chearleader, and he has not been able to give me that. Other then that he is a very loving father and he has worked very hard my whole life to provide for us. He will give me anything I want and always supports me economically. We are from a religioun and culture where the father really provides for his kids until they get married.
I have found that excersice helps tremendlessly! I started running after my saturn return and I feel so great! I have grea discipling and I feel strong and healthy and it helps me process energy build ups.
Hi Melinn, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars opposing Saturn. Since Moon is added to the picture, the mother also becomes the focus of the tension. Glad to hear you found a positive outlet of your energy through exercising.
This is one of the most difficult aspects in my chart (mars gemini in the 8th house sesquiquadrate retrograde saturn aquarius in the 4th house)
From childhood I always felt inferior to other kids as regards physical strength and dexterity. I found that though I disdained macho displays of every type and belonging to every age group, I couldn’t assert myself and my manliness in a satisfying way. There have been indeed times when I seemed to overcompensate for my otherwise normal reticence in being involved in anything that had to do with displays of manliness, and that I did to ridiculous effect and with sometimes destructive results (mostly injuries in both hands and legs)
Also, I am a musician and love to play instruments. I find that I can get around playing instruments very easily due to one of my favorite aspects, mars quintille mercury. This aspect has given me a facillity and a fascination in doing things with my hands, which is paradoxical given what I have said in the previous paragraphs.
With mars sesq saturn I have felt that there have always been limitations to what I can do physically. Growing up in Greece, I was always confronted by males (and sometimes females) for not being manly enough. The example I was following in being reticent was my father’s, an American professor, who is one of the sweetest people I know and I have boundless admiration for (I have sun conjunct jupiter, trine neptune, that’s why)
He’s not at all for macho stuff either and so was his father, who had mars conjunct saturn. But in my dad I find sometimes a sort of an awe of male figures who possess many of the qualities he himself would have liked to possess (probably also because he has sun conjunct neptune)
He doesn’t have any saturn with his mars, but this ideal of restraint in such issues has been well imprinted in my value system. In fact, most of my attempts to assert myself were constantly thwarted by my parents and some of my peers, while growing up.
Fortunately I have outlets. One of my favorite things to do while I’m on my own is to “conduct” imaginary orchestras. This is another thing my dad did. I put on recordings of pieces I know well and I just…. conduct. And I do this with such intensity that I succeed in killing all the tension and frustration brought on by feeling physically inadequate (thank you mars bi-quintille pluto, another favorite aspect)
Another thing I did, which was a positive manifestation of mars/saturn, was to take every once in a while long walks or bike rides. I would go from my house to the other side of the city and then back again. Once, I also went to the outer limits of my region and back on my bike.
Also, I have found that in music my mars/saturn gives me the ability to keep time steadily. I have noticed this is true also of great conductors like Wilhelm Furtwängler and Daniel Barenboim, who have mars in hard aspect with saturn. I have also noticed that this aspect gives a tendency to people with such aspects to have a slower physical pace. That is certainly true of me and while I have this enthusiasm for doing things with my hands, I have always felt I couldn’t do really complicated stuff because of saturn aspecting my mars adversely. At least for now…. ;)
PS It’s also why, though 25, I am afraid to take driving lessons.
Hello there, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars sesquiquadrate Saturn. These are some good thoughts and stories regarding the Mars Saturn combination, and how you found ways to work with its energy.
Hi Hiroki,
I have been thinking more about Mars in hard aspect to Saturn. Is it possible that people having these aspects might suffer from dyspraxia? To me it is possible, at least in some of them. I certainly think I have it.
Hi there, you won’t be able to find many people with the aspect who has the condition.
Hello, I have Saturn in Gemini in the seventh house opposition mars retrograde in the second house of Sagittarius. I have definitely felt the father wound that you wrote about in this article, with a father who was absent all together. Of course it lead to suppressed anger and a lack of masculinity, that I still deal with today. I feel like the wound is also intensified with a Pluto retrograde also opposition my Saturn and conjcut mars, just two degrees away, and Pluto and mars being both my Modern and tradition chart rulers (Scorpio Rising). Im still very young and have much to learn but I’ve found content and value with my father relationship, and how it has shaped me, what I value. and what I look for in my relationships with males in general. I just wanted to appreciate your article, and that it was really interesting to relate too. Your perspective is really great, along with the rest of your articles. Sorry if this was long, best wishes!
Hi Diego, thank you for sharing your experience! Much appreciated..
I have leo mars conjunct cancer saturn very close in degree in the 5th house, opposite moon, square to uranus, tight tsquare. However i did not have a terrible childhood, actually it was fantastic. My father was very involved family man. We as a family did alot together. Never was critical, actually soft spoken, friendly and very smart, helpful, he never stuck up for himself even though he was a big man, looked very scary, but a gentle giant..
My dad yelled at me once growing up, yes once and that one time, scared me.. But that’s because it was a very rare moment and it was my dumb fault.
I would not say i have a father wound and i have a terrible close tsquare involved.
Im a capricorn moon, i rejected both my parents emotions. I was the distant unfeeling one. Nor did i ever seek emotional warmth.
I don’t know if my cancer saturn/capricorn moon (just like Cher has) runs at a different octave of saturn..since both are in there opposite signs.
The only thing i think that aspect has done is make my 5th house rigid. I won’t party, i won’t gamble, i won’t dance. I don’t hang loose. I was a good kid, as my mom said.
Maybe saturn puts down the brakes of uranus square to mars. Saturn isn’t all that bad!
Hi Svetlana, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars conjunct Saturn. There is something about that 5th house rigidity, but it’s hard for me to tell from just what you’ve written. Good to hear you had a positive father relationship!
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for this wonderful article!
Would you consider an orb of about of 8.5 between mars and saturn as valid and contributing to the Father wound?
Do you think that a natal sun square pluto would have the same effect (anger issues) as mars square sarurn?
Thanks!
Hi Rose, 8.5 degree orb is a bit too wide, but if it fits you may play with the idea. Sun square Pluto has some similarity in terms of intense repressed emotions.
My 1st house cancer mars opposite saturn and neptun in capricorn. When I was kid everybody was blaming my lack of energy and I was feeling guilty. Now I am 28 and with the help of astrology I know shame doesnt help to go forward. I know now I must focus with love to show the energy. Thank you
Hello, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars opposite Saturn and Neptune. Ah, shame definitely puts a damper on energy and passion, doesn’t it? Sounds like you’re shifting into a different way of expressing this energy. Good for you!
Mars in Capricorn square both Saturn and Neptune in Libra and oppose Uranus in my natal chart. Saturn/Neptune located in the 3rd and Mars in the 6th. Father was remembered as being both physically and mentally abusive (critical) and still remember his stinging words decades later – less so the leather belt and unrestrained anger on his part. Entered teen years fearful and anxious with psychological handicaps. Still, there was love and affection for him (sextile Venus trine Moon) and remember him as a deep thinker who made profound religious and inspirational statements. Relationship with him was better as he aged but remember wanting to avoid him as a child and wishing that he wouldn’t come home. Always extremely angry and frustrated with him because of his harshness and inability to understand yet he was an enterprising businessman, at one point himself successful. Mother was much easier to deal with. He himself endured quite a bit of suffering, injustice and legal problems later in life which I grew to sympathize with. These scars (wounds) run deep – especially in younger years. Mars square Saturn – not an easy aspect – also implies abuse, danger, violence, burns, cuts, accidents and loss of blood as well as arguments and hard feelings – all of which I have experienced. Very difficult if not impossible to achieve success. Ups and downs of energy – depression and discouragement. Much of this difficult karma is spent in youth and contemplation increases as time goes by.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Mars square Saturn – I can sense the intensity of thoughts.
Hello Ive read ur article and Im so frustrated and tired of searching the answer!
I want your advice to solve the effect of the trouble which was caused in my childhood.I have Mars(Libra) 8H ,opposition Saturn(Aries) 2H. Moon(Aries) 2H, opposition Mars. Mom was really mean and dad never wanted to understand me, whatever he said used to be right, till this day I cant let myself think otherwise. I just want to break free cut the tie..
The anger and frustration is so much its overwhelming, Im tired of seeking help.
I pray and hope for your feedback.. thankyou.
Hi Maria, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars opposite saturn. Releasing the anger you’ve been holding onto would be one of the most important work you can engage in. It can change your life. However, all successful examples I’ve seen involves getting help and support in this journey (when you’re stuck like this, you simply need help).
Whether this means hiring a coach or a therapist, the work has to be done with the intention to follow through regardless of how hard or long it may be. It may take several years to be free of the anger, especially if you’ve been holding on to it all these years. All I can say is you can be free, but the responsibility to do the work (and get adequate support) belongs to you and no one else.
Best wishes,
Hiroki Niizato
Hello. I find your article very interesting. I have Mars conjunction Saturn exact in the 5th house, a Pisces Sun 4th oppose Pluto 10th, Gemini Moon square Mecury and Moon oppose my Sagittarius Ascendant. Lots of father and mother issues- he was violent and controlling; she was passive and manipulative. Home life was like a prison with sexual undertones and family secrets. They are both narcissists, and have raised narcissistic siblings. My life has been very difficult. The current transits are very heavy- please advise and thank you~Serena
Hi Serena, please consider scheduling a private session, as these issues deserve a more serious discussion.
Thank You for posting this.
I have mars in 1st house in Virgo 0 degrees on the ascendant and it opposition my saturn (retrograde) in Pisces 0 degrees on the descendant in the 7th house. This aspect is connects to my t-square to pluto (retrograde 23 degrees) in Scorpio in the 3rd house. Does this T-square aspect amplifies tribulation with father figure?
Hi Jordan, Mars opposing Saturn on the Ascendant axis is very emphatic. Pluto at a 7 degree orb (and out of sign) is a bit far to form a T square – but with or without it, the father concern would be central in your horoscope due to the angular placement of retrograde Saturn.
Hiroki, thanks for defining the Mars-Saturn relationship. I have both planets conjunct and retrograde in 11th House (Cancer) with Pluto in Leo (12th), and I felt for decades as though I had a brick on me: a taste of success here and there, but only very modest. And yes, my father was volatile and overbearing, picking fights over nothing at the dinner table because if he could make you explode (as he did with my sister), he thought it was funny. Putting up with a lot of that crap and bullying at school gave me a thick skin, but it was not until I left home for the Navy (signed up on 2/7, my 21st birthday), got into the world and saw that not everyone acted that way, that I realized there were ‘normal’ people. I had to live with my loony parents when I was finishing college but went right back to the Navy as soon as I graduated two years later, and did not go back there except to visit. I realized (because I had matured a lot being on my own) that my father had a need to dominate and provoke everyone. When I found a new job and moved to a large city, and paid monthly visits, my father tried picking a fight with me over the route I took to drive home – over nothing, again . When he threatened me for not taking the route he said I should take, I faced him down with ‘What are you going to do to me if I don’t take that route?’ Challenging him stopped that stuff forever. That was several decades ago, and my Aquarian indepdence never went away.
Now what I see is my thinking that I had a ‘brick’ on me – not the success I had hoped for early – was preparation for what I’m doing in retirement, creating sci-fi and fantasy fiction and fine art, and with Saturn now approaching its natural home (Capricorn) where Pluto is currently residing, the brick was simply a learning process that made me a better writer, fine artist and photographer. I am a very happy camper because of that, slowly building an audience which will last longer than instant success ever could.
Basically, I will earn the success I always sought but never really found. The realization that challenging my father’s need to dominate everyone broke that grip of his was a huge release toward real independence.
Thanks for your analysis of this. It has stymied me for a very long time.
Hi Sara, thank you for eloquently sharing your journey with the Mars Saturn conjunction. Much appreciated!
My pleasure. It’s been a long journey, but it was definitely worth it, and your article was very enlightening. I’m looking forward to what follows over the next few years.
And thank you, again.
I understand Hiroki
Thanks for responding
Hello Hiroki
I have been wondering how Mars conjunct Saturn in the composite chart (7 degs wide) could manifest in the relationship (the composite north node is also conjunct but nearer to Saturn by 3 degs)
Is this set up as challenging, potential to be cold and cruel as well as as negative as some astrologers seem to indicate?
Thanks for any bit of info you can give me on this.
Best regards J
Hi Jennifer, I don’t use composite chart anymore, so cannot comment on it. Composite chart is a mathematical construct that is divorced from the two original birth charts – I prefer to think in terms of synastry (although I’ve played with composite charts for years.)
Hi Hiroki,
My natal Mars and Saturn aren’t too badly apected, Saturn 21 degrees Aries, and Mars 10 degrees Gemini. But!!! In my progressed chart I have Mars in Cancer closing in towards an extremely long-term square with Saturn that will culminate at around 25 degrees Aries/Cancer. Unfortunately, though, and what’s really bothering me, is that Saturn will be in my progressed 12th house and Mars will be in my progressed Solar 12th house (progressed 4th house). I mean, seriously?!! All that friction and burning rage being channeled through two 12th house placements! Do you know the collective term for hidden enemies, by any chance? I was wondering if I should get myself euthanized before this alignment reaches it’s 1 degree orb. On the upside, I have worked through a lot of my father issues and the rage that you described coming from a sense of weakness (being a Cap rising I know all about feeling weak and impotent). I’ve also done a lot of self-awareness work around my ego, too, so hopefully I may be well-placed to channel that cosmic/karmic tsunami into a strong sense of discipline and develop that indomitable will you spoke of.
Best wishes to you, and thank you for that enlightening article.
Kind regards
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thank you for the comment (I’ve removed your birth data, as this is a public forum.) I don’t use progressions in the way you’re describing, so would not interpret this the same way. Using Secondary Progression this way is tricky, as slower planets become pretty much useless in reflecting the fast changing pace of modern life. Your best bet in using secondary progression is to look at the progressed Moon’s passage through your horoscope. Other major life movements can be reflected by transits and solar arcs (please consider scheduling a private consultation if you’d like to discuss the potential of the current time period.)
Hi Hiroki
Thank you very much for your reply.
As I am very much a novice in astrology, like many others in my position, I’m foolishly (by way of ignorance) confusing and scaring the hell out of myself when I see these ominous aspects on the horizon. I was thinking along the lines of, “Long-term, rage-inducing aspect connected to the progressed 4th house; hmmm! A lengthy prison sentence, me thinks!” It’s easy to get lost in these thoughts, isn’t it. I feel that learning about astrology, and realizing its reality, has made me quite fatalistic as in there seems to be no escaping one’s destiny (good or bad), so now, I feel that what will be will be, anyway. I could be a little confused about this, also! (Maybe astrology helps us to prepare for, and navigate, those rough waters more safely).
Unfortunately, Hiroki, I’m not in a position, at the moment, to indulge myself with a private consultation, but it’s something I would love to do at a later date, when the opportunity arises. Thank you, though, for the very generous guidance you’ve included. I do track my progressed moon and other transits, but I haven’t yet taken the time to learn about the solar arcs, as I didn’t realize their importance. I will take a much closer look into this area now.
Best wishes
Mike
The main thing is to remember is that universe doesn’t hate you, so any astrological interpretation that makes you feel that way is, at best, incomplete, and at worst, a complete hogwash that deserves to be left in the dark ages.
Yes. I know from my own spiritual development that the universe loves us all. If we watch closely enough for long enough, with our heart-minds, we see that it disciplines and helps all of us in its own (words are not enough, here) strange and amazing way. I was going to say it’s like the eighth wonder of the world, but I think it’s really the ultimate wonder of the world (universe).
Thank you for helping me to see astrology in a more positive light, and that the planets aren’t lining up to “get me” – maybe just helping me grow and change a little, or sometimes a lot.
You have a kind soul and an insightful mind, Hiroki. I look forward to having a consultation with you at some point in the future. Take care.
Thanks! I’ll think about it!
Hi Hiroki,
I have a tight Uranus-Mars-Pluto conjunction in 1st / Virgo, opposite Saturn in 7th. I felt awfully different and weak as a teenager and a young adult, but I grew much stronger, especially since I got married. I certainly feel more and more powerful and managed to build the life I wanted. But it’s still really difficult for me to know where I’m good at and what to do with it.
Hi Veronique, thank you for sharing your experience. That is quite a powerful configuration you have, and “weakness” isn’t what comes to mind. Seems to me that you have a highly charged energy that demands a constructive outlet.
Hi Hiroki,
This is probably the most insightful post I have ever read. This had really helped me put my inner into a more constructive, tangible & comprehensive manner.
I wanted to thank you for discussing this with the world. I am a type of person that is always willing to work on myself & to do my inner work so that I can become a better person for myself to progress forward & to a better person for others.
My conditional story as a child was somewhat comical, as I am reading your post…I made some notes…
I had a mother that was too afraid to express or speak up for herself, or to use her masculinity, which caused her to outburst into anger quickly because she could not control others. And a father that used his masculinity too much, but held his anger inside and if he felt powerless, would blame others or not speak up at all because of the anger! Lol!
I am intimately working on the very details of my conditioning as a child and really seeing how it is not only affecting me as a grown adult interacting with the world but also how I want to be seen in the world.
Thank you again so much for posting this!
Aloha & Mahalo
Raquel ^_^
Hi Raquel,
Thank you for sharing your experience! Glad you resonated with the article.
my son has mars and saturn conjunction in 2 house. he has virgo rising and hence saturn is exalted in libra in 2nd house. However i am not sure about how mars behaves in libra. mars is at 13 degree and saturn as 22 degrees. I think he has anger which i find unreasonable and uncontrollable too.
Hi there, 9 degree is a bit too wide for a conjunction for most cases (typically you use 6 degrees or less.)
Really appreciate your article. I am myself a very intuitive and creative person with a lot of pent up anger and anxiety both. I am an aquarius ascendant with Mars conjunct Saturn and Pluto in my 7th house. My father passed away 2 months back in a very sudden and unexpected manner due to cardiac arrest that too while on a holy visit to a temple. I realized a few years ago that he had huge narcissistic issues and hence the emotional abuse in childhood. Due to all my quest for self awareness I have been able to bring lot of peace in my life. Still there is a lot of healing to take place and I am determined to overcome it.
Hi Neha,
Thank you for sharing your experience – sorry to hear about your father.
Hi Hiroki
I have Mars conjunct Saturn in the 2nd House of my Solar Return and both planets are Retrograde. What does this mean?
Thank you!
Hi Susan, I don’t use solar return chart so cannot comment on it – I prefer to always consider whatever transit is going on (solar return is, after all, a transit chart on the day of your birthday) in relation to the natal chart.
Thank you.
I just started learning about my aspects and I have Mars Square Saturn. My Mars is in Scorpio and my Saturn is in Aquarius. I definitely have a father wound… I grew up with a father who abused us physically and verbally… I had a lot of anger towards him. Though I was able to express it to him at the expense of getting hurt.
He was a good provider, but he was completely absent emotionally. He was my hero back then. I admired him a lot, so when I found out about him cheating on my mom, I was really hurt and disappointed. Personally, I do have a temper which is quite scary. I’ve had a lot of emotional confrontation with my parents and siblings. I’ve
always felt that I am helpless to change things with my family and that gave me a lot of anger in my early years. I find myself not following through a lot of things. I just don’t have the motivation or need to assert myself. Yes, I think
I need a lot of healing to do.
Hi Annie,
Thank you for commenting and sharing your experience about this aspect. Much appreciated.
I swear it seems like I could have written everything that you just explained about your father and and everything else you explained- crazy! Mars(my chart ruler; Aries Ascendant) is in Cancer/3rd house square Saturn Libra/6th house, I resonate with everything you explained, feel free to hit me up anytime to talk astrology if you want ☮💯💙
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for the attentiveness you have paid towards the other commenters.
My natal Mars (in 12th house Leo) is Opposite my 6th house Pisces Saturn (retrograde 0 degree Pisces), and both of which are square my 3rd house Pluto in Scorpio (retrograde). My Saturn is also the ruler of the 5th house.
I have had a very stable and happy upbringing by two great, responsible and mild mannered parents. I am a unassuming and academically focused person.
However, I feel a lot of pessimism, low esteem, unexplained anxiety and shyness, self consciousness, confusion and fatigue in me. I suspect that these feelings have something to do with the Saturn-Mars-Pluto aspect.
What type of past life issues, in your opinion, could this glaring T Square pattern in these Cadent Houses mean? I am truly at my wits end regarding the meaning of this paticular pattern.
Hello B, thank you for sharing your experience – good to hear from someone with a happy upbringing to balance out the more extreme cases being shared here. Past life issues tend to get mirrored in your early home circumstance, so there could be more to the story of your upbringing possibly involving siblings, relatives and other children (cadent house issues).
My natal Mars (5th house) is retrograde, in Libra, and opposing Saturn (11th house) in Aries. (And if we add my Gem Moon (1st)-Sag Pluto (7th) opposition, I don’t really know how to describe this beyond “I am a mess”.)
Geez, I have all this anger and negative emotions inside, but I try to be positive most of the time… I have problems with people wanting to order me around, but that’s exactly what I do to them. I have problems with my father, a few things I wish I could say to my mother, but I know I’m being irrational. I have trouble with focusing my energy in reaching goals, and I end up procrastinating all the time.
Etc.. Etc…
Thanks for the article, though. Gives me hope about this not being THAT bad.
Hi Marian, thanks for commenting and sharing your experience with the Mars Saturn opposition. Mars retrograde adds a bit of internalized anger, a need to find a way to assert yourself constructively. As with most Saturn aspect, this is something you will get better at with experience and conscious awareness.
Bonjour Marian (sorry i’m french people)
I also have Mars in Libra and I read somewhere that this position describes people who do not absolutely like the conflict, who prefer to set on themselves and who tolerate a lot of wickedness from the others. A difficult position, because Mars is to assert itself, while the Libra is to turn a blind eye to what does not go like he wants to… Thus, Mars is not very happy here. The only answer: always find the strenght and the way to put words when something is wrong, by using your sense of justice. Since the Libra is a sign which likes the justice and the balance, it is necessary to use these qualities to express your point of view. It is absolutely necessary for us to denounce and speak out against injustice, to explain our vision for a more equitable (fairer) world .
In brief, Mars, here, ask us to be a ” teacher “, to express our values, our ideas, our sens of justice, to be the one who stands up for the little guy, to help the downtrodden. Always speak to express your ideal of justice
Then, do not hesitate: teach your relationship (Libra is the sign of the relationships). That is what I’ve learn about my Mars in Libra.
Good luck and courage… You are not alone. I feel similar than you. And nobody is a waste. We all have a treasure inside us. We just have to find it, and to put it in the service of the whole human community. (Sorry for my english again. Google helped here ^^)
Maybe find the meaning of the north node can help you? It helped me
Hi,
I have gemini ascendant with southnode, jupiter in 3rd house of leo, Sagittarius northnod in 7th house, retrograde saturn in 8th house of Capricorn, mars in 10th house of pisces.
In 12th house if tauras i have- venus13°,moon15°,sun17°,mercury17°27′.
This 12th house 4 planet conjunction ,
&
8th house retro. saturn (3rd)aspect on 10th house mars.
My life was miserable since my childhood. Never had a happy family nurturing environment around me till the age of 15. Then we separated from joint family. hence i feel relaxed, from this day my father has time to take care of me. now it is like i can understand that the circumstances were not good, hence my father suffered. I forgave him in my heart.
I was a good student. I scored good academics, but had to suffer a lot for this, money problem, people around me were jealous of me hence i got troubles in my way, i never had intelligent teachers for sure, it’s like dumb people taught me always, hence i had to do the whole lot of work alone. Never had good friends.
I don’t know which planetary effect is causing this but i spend a lot of time imagining. Seriously i imagine a lot. I think a lot. Even i can feel other people’s pain so clearly. I am very sensitive to emotions sometime.
And now it’s like i dont know what to do.
It is like i am born to suffer… to see that hell exits on earth…feel it…see others suffering….
Hello Vicky, that’s a lot of measurements you listed there – the imagination and “feeling the pain of others” is often represented by Neptune or Pisces emphasis (in your case, Mars in Pisces.) Please feel free to schedule a private consultation if you’d like to discuss your horoscope in more detail.
Hello Vicky,
My ex-husband has joint Saturn Mars in 8th house (gemini) and I can see the damages that the heavy critics of his father have had on him (and on our couple and our children). It’s as if his parents had completely castrated him.
Having said that, I have only 2 planets in house 12 (mercury ruler of 8th/11th, and uranus ruler of 4th) and it feels like the universe often calle to meditate. As if it urge me several days to examine my true innerself. Sometimes, I wish i could just go out, to make things simple as go to my office, or shopping, or at the coffeeshop, at the beach, to make a picnic but i can’t because my energy suddenly dissipate, I begin to feel sick and I have to be held recluse.
To be often sick is common with planets in 12th. Another inconvenience is that I feel hardly the pain or sorrow of others people. I carry it, I think about it until I find a solution (and then some rest). Then I go out to find them and I give it to them. Sometimes, I am rejected, but it’s worth it. Because, after a while, 1 week or a month, I notice that my advice has been listened to and the person is on the way to feel better….
Another inconvenience still is in the difficulty sorting out our own feelings and the others’s. Or our feelings and theirs. But with a little practice, we improve ^^ Good luck!
Thank you, Hiroki, for this space of exchange, who allows us to know that we are not alone:)
I just was thinking… with planets in 12th we have to be very careful not to become addicted in medicine, narcotics, or alcohol. I’ve had a cancer of the thyroid, hypertensive crises, hormonal disorders… I heal myself with homoeopathy, herbal medicine/phytotherapy and aromatherapy to avoid the impact of a too big chemical medication. I feel better now :)
I obviously avoid tea or coffee, as far as possible (uranus here in 12th, well, it is like there are fireworks all the time, day and night). Planets in 12th make us very, very sensitive. Feeling everybody’s feelings or thoughts until you even don’t know if they’re yours or not, is very difficult to live with. A lot of people take narcotics, alocohol and medicine to be able to deal with their acute sensitivity. That’s the worst thing to do. Theatre, musique, videos, meditation, reading books, writing, painting are the best way. Planets in 12th house increase creativity, sensitivity and resilience by making us be conscious that it’s not just us, but the whole world too. It’s like if we had an open door over another “world” and like if we could just travel between the two worlds, as far as necessary, to fulfill the needs of this one. There’s no border between feelings/thinkings of the others people and ours, neither than between that other world and this one. So we can share our thoughts, dreams, or imagination, our minds… We finally become conscious that we form a whole with everything in the world, even the the world we can’t see. And we begin to understand that there is a power acting in the universe, which regulates the movement of celestial bodies and wants us to develop more compassion, love, creativity and generosity inside us. And we have to find a way to share it artistically. It’s like our ego does not exist any more until it takes into account egos of the whole world, it’s like if our consciousness did not limit itself to our small person but worried to satisfy the ego or needs of the whole world. Too many of us resist him, we prefer to remain superficial, materialistic and irresponsible. Then, we fall into any kind of addictions. And meanwhile, disasters do not stop raining on us.
We have to accept our path. We all cannot have the same dreams and make all the same thing. The world needs rebels, eccentric people, idealistic dreamers who dare to challenge the world for a better living. Whatever you call God is “cutting” us like a sculptor cuts the stone. That hurts, yes, but He is making of us a masterpiece. So let Him do, because the world needs it (included your futur husband/wife, children, body, colleagues, neighbors, …).
I’ve lost my dreams of career but I’ve won another power : the power to make the difference in the mind of people around me (my homies, family, colleagues, neighbors,…even strangers,…) trying to get their life, their health and their relations improve. I am still this discreet poor female unknown, who came from Gabon (Central Africa) at age of 25 to marry her French fiancé, (after having lived two years in Gabon with him) and it’s perfect like that. Only God knows what i’ve been through. Be blessed
Saturn conjunct Mars in Scorpio in the first house. mmmm what can I say I still struggle with these themes. My father is the representation of someone who is present but not really, I guess here is where Scorpio comes in all the occult undertones, all the things that are not spoken but understood in some way but not fully conscious of. Its like living your whole life in one paradigm but slowly, and painfully realizing all the lies (Pluto also conjuncts my ascendant) and walking a convoluted maze in which the more you think you are getting closer to the center or the truth the more deeper it all goes, and I wonder if there will ever be an end to all this. I can only hope at this point that I find that center I so desperately seek, but often miss. That I some how find peace with all that I am, and have become. I never paid much attention to my relationship with my father, I kinda dismissed for what it was, someone who I know all my life an lived with but who I barely know, and barely knows me. Pretty twisted, but the story of my life none the less. Thank you for sharing your perspective, and allowing us to share ours. Blessings!
Hi Angela,
Thank you for sharing your story – Scorpio Mars goes very deep, and the conjunction with Saturn marks it with (among other things) a father theme tied to your identity development (the 1st house.) Eventually wisdom, integrity and responsibility will start being the guiding theme, which will allow you to exercise and express your power in a productive way in all relationships.
Not sure that you’ll see this, Angela, but I just wanted to let you know that I have these placements too. Saturn conjunct Mars in my first house, in Scorpio, pluto conjunct ASC, but out of sign in the last degree of Libra. If you see this and you want to discuss how this aspect affects our lives to gain further understanding and insight, I’m interested. Respond to this comment if you are. Be well.
Hi. Since ive noticed my tightest aspects revolves around saturn(less than 1 degree) i wanted take a closer look and found myself here. My saturn in 4th square moon(conj pluto) in 1st and mars in 7th(with 17 something degree). So im aware im suppressing many things and i know it caused great suppressed anger. Anger for upbringing, unjustice, being wronged.. I havent got enough power when i was young and i have to just watch all of this shit. Then i dont know when but i remember i vowed myself i will do everything in my power to overcome these situations. I vowed myself i dont wont let them making me what they believe, i dont want to hate and be jealous and suffocated in frustation. And then i worked really hard i directed all energy to work and not wasting it in these negative emotions. Then i entered university a good one and after that in time everthing gets better when i was in my control when there was no hold back.
Hi Karen, thank you for commenting and sharing your experience – I appreciated reading about your journey in transforming the potential of this aspect. Mars Saturn combination can turn into “indomitable will”, where you tackle the impossible and win time and again. Good for you!
Excellent analysis! I’m just learning aspects. I have Mars conjunct Sun and Sun opposite Saturn. My Mars is in a different sign but it is also opposite Saturn based on degrees. I prefer not to share my *daddy experiences* over the internets but you hit on many important and relevant themes. I find it fascinating that Saturn suppresses Mars. Again, I’m a newby with astrology and am still learning how planets express and impress. However I’m *seriously* ruled by Saturn. I’m a Cap rising with a moon in Aqua so you could only imagine how restrictive it is sometimes in many areas of my life. And my Saturn in the 9th is practically sitting on my Jupiter in the 8th. My moon can also take on a whole other expression since its in an extroverted sign. Idk. Thank you for this analysis.
Hi R Elaine, thank you for commenting – glad you resonated with the thoughts in this article! Saturn suppresses Mars initially, but it will need to guide and direct Mars eventually for them to work together productively.
Hi Hiroki,
I have Mars-Saturn conjunct in the 4th house (scorpio) squaring Sun (aquarius).
I definitly feel, unpowered and afraid to express myself, huge criticism from both parents (Moon in eight house).
What i’ve learn from my reasearch in this aspects is.
Saturn-Mars Conjunction = Heavy Criticism from parents and consequently from people in general.
Saturn-Mars Square = Rejection/ father not present.
Saturn- Mars Opposition = Goes both ways.
Just wanna share that i find you very insightfull, and quite spot on.
wish you the best
Hi Rodolfo, thank you for sharing your experience – 4th house Mars Saturn conjunction especially focuses its energy on family and parental matters.
Hi Hiroki
I am a male that have his Mars in his 12th squared by Saturn, Moon and Uranus in the 9th house.
I always had resentement to my father because although he’s a good person, his lack of power and self steem was shocking for me specially when I was a boy. I’m a Sun 8th house too, my father had a very severe deppresion when I had 13 years old. He almost “died” of it.
I never was able to express my frustration on him, because my mother was even a worst figure to me as a boy .
Spirituality and meditation has been deeply helpful to me, giving me some of the strenght that I lacked before.
Nevertheless I’ve recently had that overcompensation that you mention. And anger explosions.
Would you recommend me something about my Mars?
I deeply appreciate your articles and help.
Thank you
Hi Alex, thank you for commenting and sharing your experience – I appreciate your candor. You might enjoy works by Robert Bly, who wrote quite a few gems on male psychology (“Iron John” is a classic on this, and “The Little Book of Human Shadow” as mentioned earlier is also good, although not specific to males.) His work gives insights on different ways to develop your Mars (male energy), other than the ones you’ve been taught (modeled) by your father.
Hi sir I have mars saturn conjuction in 6th .all my life was constant battles but somehow I overcome them and after couple of years of Shadow in front of me I can feel that I have the will and I won’t quit.
Good for you!!
I have mars in 10th in Cancer and Saturn in forth in Capricorn and Saturn is aspeted by Jupiter in 12th house…actually mars receiving neech bhangga… I study aprox…16-17 hr a day but still not get satisfied…I think always its not sufficient to get what you want… If I waste my time I feel anxiety…sometimes I feel like I can do anything.. no one can stop me from doing it…bt sometimes I feel like I can’t do it…every one is better than me…mood swings r common…n feel like I trying hard but something is pulling me back…I totally forced on my career but feel like I can’t achieve what I want…
Sounds like you might need release your mental or emotional baggage (anxiety or “can’t do it” thinking) so that they don’t stop you from taking solid action.
But i dont remember any instance of having any kind of issue with my dad .he ia my role model ,my guide since childhood.i think it is because i have sun in the first house though debilitated in D1 , it is exalted in D9 in 7th house .but i want to know the malefic effects of retrograde saturn in my chart .thank you .
Hello hiroki niizato , i am a libra ascendent , my saturn is retrograde in aquarius in 5th house and my mars is well placed in scorpio in 2nd house along with jupiter and venus .how do i relate your article to predict my saturn mars relation ?i share a great relation with my dad .
The best way to utilize Mars Saturn aspect is in terms of will power and progress toward your goal. Most often the father issue will be strong during childhood, and as adults you work out a better way to relate with each other.
You are so spot on, it’s a little freaky at first! :) I have a Saturn conjunct Mars/Moon (exact), in the seventh house of Cancer. So, this whole article, was like reading my life story. But with alot less abusie, and control. My step-father, who I was told most of my life was my “real” father. Was a complete and utter control freak. He had anger issues and he abuse us, alot. We walked around in fear most of the time. He gave us ridiculous rules and regulations, then spied on us to make sure we were following them. Things like not sitting on the grass. I never really understood, all of the things that his abusive and controlling behavior caused. But this still affects me, somewhat in varying degrees. I just took my driveres license test, and passed! I am age 40. My kids all tease me because they got there’s before I did. I am a highly, “gifted, intelligent person-and feel I have wasted my entire life, out of fear. Fear that he instilled in me all those years ago. I have only just recently started to do things, most “normal” people do everyday-and don’t think twice about it. Like banking, Savings Accounts, 401 K and Retirement Plans. I am slowly, every year-gaining new knowledge, to be more and more self sufficent. And feeling more and more capable, of setting goals, and making appts., and organizing, ect. ect. And the thing that really forced me, into starting down that road of self-motivation and understanding that I am a capable, able human-was my children. It was do or die, I had to start going and doing and being present, as soon as they were born. It was never easy, and I have worked hard, alot of times just in my own mind-just to get through a day, and not melt into a screaming fit out of pure frustrated anxiety. I’m so sorry, to be so long winde-but I am so excited I found this website!! You are very intuitive and spot on!! I also want to add the reasn I hav continued my Astrological Studies all of these years-I feel there is something to it-because I can guess apersons Sun sign, after maybe just talking with them a few times-sometimes just a few minutes-and my success rate is about 75 percent!!! It’s seems uncanny-but to me I see it so clearly- I usually just blurt it out. I have scared more than a few people!! Anyway, thanks-your great!
It seems like very few people have a conjunction aspect, so I’m so glad to find you! I have Mars tightly conjunct Saturn in my 8th house in Leo. My father was very intense and dominating. Scary is the word I’m looking for. He was never physically abusive, but you were not allowed to express yourself if it didn’t match his perception of what was acceptable. Hence the Leo cusp. I did eventually learn to stand up to him, but I still feel like I can’t really be myself around him. There are a lot of things that I continue to hide from him like my love of astrology and the occult. He would find that blasphemous. I used to wish he would die or my parents would get divorced so I could be me openly. I find myself still thinking that at times. I feel like I can be released when he passes.
Wow…. that sounds pretty dangerous!
My significant other has Mars+Saturn+Pluto in a loose conjunction in Libra in his 7th House. Jupiter at zero degrees of Scorpio is also part of the mix, as an out of sign conjunction. This whole planetary soup squares his Cancer Sun!
Many of the things you have written here would definitely hold true for him. He always says he had a loveless childhood. Although he never elaborates, I suspect it was the “father wound” you have mentioned. He feels that the only way he can get over his childhood is when he becomes a loving father to two kids, himself. I don’t want children… definitely not now, and maybe not ever. I’m a freedom-loving Aquarian!!
Also, he had a bad first marriage… I guess that would happen if Saturn was in your seventh house, right? As his GF, I can only hope that he is the ‘more evolved’ kind of Saturnian!
BTW, your blog is great. I love reading the articles as well as the insightful comments left by different readers.
Hi MB, thank you for your comment. Mars Saturn aspect is a formidable combination, but fortunately there are plenty of inspiring examples that express the power of will and discipline suggested by this aspect. Nick Vujicic comes to mind.
Hi,
I have Saturn conjunct Pluto in the 1st house squaring mars in cancer 10th house. My early childhood was seeing my father only in weekends as his work took him away. I could say he was missing most part of my life even though he was there. Sometimes I regarded him as an authority figure even though when I wanted to dominate him I did. A part of frustration and anger was developed when I was put in a situation where my father’s friend and colleague tried to put his tongue in my mouth. This is all I remember as I was around 7 yrs old. He haunted me every time my father took me with him in his delegations and his colleague joined us with his little daughter younger then me. Just the thought of being around him made me feel shameful and afraid. My fathers presence did helped a bit as I new he would not dare to touch me. The past 4 yrs of my life ( I’m 32 now) I spent researching my soul and meeting with my demons (probably Pluto opposition moon helped ). What I would like to share here is that when u are in a situation which is beyond control and you loose every power you own because of another person gives u the most unsettling and frustrating feeling. And that point which changed my life has put the stamp on everything, how I would behave, think and feel, so I started to dominate by any means I had, manipulation, violence (verbal kind) and anger, loads of anger. I dominated all my relationships through jealousy and manipulation until I meat my husband who had a lot of patience with me and through him I realized what had happened to me in early childhood. I think his words struck me first : ” why do you hate me when you should love me, don’t you know that every time you are talking and behaving this way u are just promoting hate between us.” So I have decided to love him and stop the promotion of hatred. I ‘ve always felt that I owe it to all women to hurt, despise and toy with other man. I have also Lilith opposition SUN. It didn’t bring me any of happiness. This energy need an outlet, a physical one. What I can advice do sport of any kind and meditate this helped me a lot after dealing with your demons.
Hello Lola,
Thank you for sharing your experience and insights with Saturn square Mars, intensified by Pluto. I think many people will find your words helpful, and look how you’ve been able to change the patterns of hate into that of love! Much appreciated..
I have Mars square Saturn retrograde and certainly have a great rejection of my father, completely blocking me and I’ve always been afraid because it is very aggressive … the issue is that I have accumulated a lot of anger and would be far from the; I think so too have problems with authority. I hope my experience will be useful.
Hello Roxana,
Thank you for commenting and sharing your experience with Mars square Saturn retrograde (a classic father situation). As you begin integrating the anger, the other side of the aspect (its strengths) might begin to emerge.
It’s taken me a while, but I wanted to thank you Hiroki, for your mention of the book, “A Little Book on the Human Shadow” by Robert Bly. Since my Nodal Return last year (in my progressed 12th), I’ve been especially drawn to shadow work, reading *almost* anything I can get my hands on. This beautiful little book didn’t disappoint ~ thanks so much for the recommendation.:)
Among its many pearls is a passage having to do with overlooked or denied details, those dark truths that lie in shadow. The author relays a story he heard about a traveler who made a point of regularly attending different talks given by various ‘holy’ men, afterwards asking each how their particular spiritual path related to the poor. Rather than having his question (and underlying concern) answered, he was regularly escorted out of these talks!
With transiting Saturn opposite my 9H retrograde Gemini Mars and square my 12H Pluto in Virgo, I related to the idea the storyteller was trying to convey and found it very validating.:) Maybe it’s worth adding how my Draconic Saturn (in Taurus) is conjunct my natal Mars in Gemini.
In addition to taking back any shadow projections and consciously restraining our anger, I think the “middle path” you refer to also benefits by our consciously *redirecting* it. Once we understand and take back our projections, it frees up energy and awareness that can then be rechanneled, personally and collectively. It’s the gold in the shadow. Hard work yes, but if we’re interested in bigger truths and walking our talk, also very rewarding.
Thanks again, Hiroki.:) I always appreciate your insights.
Hi lb, glad you enjoyed the book! I agree, the essence of Mars Saturn aspect is in having the wisdom to know where to redirect the energy..
A big part of my own shadow work -and using one of Bly’s shadow archetypes- has involved recognizing when I’m carrying other people’s witches around *or* they’re carrying mine, then consciously taking back what belongs to me. It’s a process that began years ago, when I started to express myself (and redirect my hurt and anger) through the art I created ~ something I didn’t mention in my original comment.
Music helps too. One of my favorite singer/composers, great for helping me connect with shadow, is Lisa Gerrard.
There’s a lovely quote in the book that resonates deeply with me:
” . . . the person who has eaten his shadow spreads calmness and shows more grief than anger.” Robert Bly
Okay, Hiroki. I’ll leave it at that, except to say I’d love to read more astrological posts on shadow.:)
Hi Hiroki,
My son who just turned 20 has Pisces Saturn 24′ in 2nd house opposed Virgo Mars 24′ in the eighth, Mars is conjunct Chiron.
I met his dad, a Virgo who was a foreign student who had just arrived in the U.S. for a graduate degree. We became close friends, but dating was chaos. The whole time I kept seeing in his face the beautiful blending of what was to become our child, a combination of eastern and western genetic blending that turned out so beautiful. He fought the idea, and I made it come to fruition. It was like I was on a mission to create a masterpiece from the shambles of my life. When our son was born, I lived in another state and it took his father almost a year to gather up the courage to finally visit. I always tried to keep the door open and the welcome mat out for him. Finally he realized his fears were unfounded and our son grew up to be an outstanding, successful person.
We all get along together well and the happiest day of my life was when we happily attended our son’s high school graduation together as dear friends and parents. It was something that was painfully absent from my own youth.
With Mars conjunct Chiron in Virgo, my son struggles with my weaknesses as a parent. Everything he cannot do for himself, falls on my shoulders and sometimes I lash out in frustration. I have tried to be the parent I never had, the strength and the rock and it seems he sees me as not that way at all, just weakness and inability to snap to it.
I have Libra Mars exactly conjunct my I.C. sesquiquadrate Aquarius Saturn in the eighth house, and Pisces Moon conjunct Chiron in the 9th. In my case, my dad severely abused my mom while I always looked on and then abandoned me as a child. My mom was in no shape to raise me and I raised my son with the knowledge that I learned better parenting skills after understanding how important it was. I empowered my child and focused attention on his awareness of himself and his abilities in the world and how to cultivate self pride and preservation. To do that, I was often forced to confront my greatest fears and shortcomings. It was always a very raw and honest approach. I did not sugar coat anything. So it is painful for my son sometimes to understand how flawed I am, and he seeks to distance himself from that.
And I understand him completely, because I felt that way about my own mother and give thanks everyday that I am a much healthier and happier version of her without all of her emotional wounding and suffering.
Hi Sherry,
Thank you for sharing your experience with your son (Mars opposite Saturn) and your own (Mars sesquiquadrate Saturn) father situation. It sounds like you played a significantly larger role in your son’s development, almost as if you were both his mother and father to some extent.
I know this is off the central theme about personal aspects, but Mars opposite Saturn is in a composite chart with my partner. Both of us come to the relationship with fairly substantial parental wounds, and with it, as you pointed out, the challenges of power and projection. As we work through our issues individually and as a couple, I can see the positive potential – that energy, when directed correctly, has been tremendously healing and productive, and we are thriving. Nonetheless, learning how to relate (and communicate -Mars is in our 3rd house) from a position of strength and confidence, will be a continuing source of learning and growth. However, I don’t know if I could have made the personal strides I have without this composite aspect. (Mars is not in contact with Saturn in either of our natal charts.) Thanks again for your compassionate interpretation of challenging aspects. It gives space to explore meaning creatively.
Interesting insight from a composite Mars Saturn opposition! Thank you for sharing.
I’m the “lucky” owner of a triple conjunction Mars/Uranus/Pluto in the 4 Opposite Saturne Retrograde in the 10 (Virgo/Pisces axis). After 10 years of therapy to get rid of the past, I’m probably the most resilient person I know.
It’s an euphemism to say that I’ve had dificulties with authority figures in the past – to the point that it got obvious that the only way for me was full independancy workwise. Now, it’s still a batlle, but I keep in mind that Mars must serve Saturne, and not fight him – since in the end he always looses.
It’s a principle that I try to apply every day – though I’ll never get rid of a deep injustice feeling regarding how our elites rule the world. In that way, my Mars tends to serve Uranus more than Saturne (respecting the Noel Tyl principle that in the Saturne/Uranus contacts, Uranus is always the winner in the end – even it has to be after painful life experiences.)
Hi Laurent, thank you for commenting and sharing your experience of Mars opposition Saturn Rx with Uranus and Pluto thrown in! I respect your personal insight obtained through years of work.
Hi Hiroki, thanks for this great explanation of Mars-Saturn aspects. You mentioned that having either Mars or Saturn well-placed can offset some of the more debilitating effects of this placement. I have Saturn in Capricorn but Mars is in Cancer with an opposition between them. I was just wondering how much the Saturn placement might mitigate the poorly placed Mars. My father (who was a high ranking Air Force officer, and often absent due to his work as a test pilot) walked out on a family of 4 children when I was 11, and we never saw or heard from him again. Thirty years later I found his address and wrote to him to tell him what I thought of him and to let him know what havoc his actions had caused in all our lives. I don’t feel as though I project an angry persona, quite the opposite in fact. I think my friends would describe me as warm, welcoming, etc (though obviously past resentments came out in my letter to my father). Perhaps that’s the “simmering resentment” just held in check? My question is – how beneficial is the role of a Capricorn Saturn in this scenario?
Hi Sue, thank you for commenting and sharing your experience. Regarding “how beneficial” the Capricorn Saturn might be, it’s possible that with well placed Saturn you could more easily shift into the positive expression of the aspect. But from what you’ve shared, there may still be some healing opportunities to go through.
Projection in the sense meant here for Mars opposing Saturn is to see (project) the anger in others. So if you feel judgment toward someone in your life for the way they express anger, maybe there is some projection at work, meaning that you could be seeing your own anger reflected back at you through other people’s behavior. I’m not saying if this is true for you, but it’s something worth exploring especially if you’re feeling unhappy toward someone.
I have mars in 4th opposite saturn in 9th (add uranus conjunxt saturn opposite mars as well). Every time i look at my chart, this aspect keeps drawing my eye. Somewhere inside me i know that this is the dominating one in my chart, at least in my earlier years and up to 28.
Sometimes i feel like anger is my best friend, it sits on my shoulder constantly, waiting for an excuse to act. I find mu outlet in everything thats got discipline, as long as its strict and has a strong moral compass behind it, i get by fine. Mostly i get angry at myself, for always feeling so useless, it’s like there’s one foot on the speeder (mars) and one foot on the break (saturn) at the same time, and the feeling of trying and trying your best, but constantly getting pulled back is so frustrating i sometimes fully understand why it manifests as anger. So if what i tell myself to do doesnt work, then you can bet that some other “authority figure” shouldn’t state their opinions at all ;) it can be hard feeling as if you’re at war with the entire world (projection) when its just myself i cant fully accept. I mostly feel that this aspect has been the root of all my problems, but these last few years when i’m nearing thirty, i’ve started seeing the good qualities, and trying to finally relax and not be so tense about absolutely every aspect of my life, trying to get things done and not succeeding. I feel as if no one can break my will, i know exactly what direction i want to go, and no “temptations” are going to lead me astray as they do so many other people who make excuses every time they make a bad choice and hurt other people. When i finally started not blaming everything for my own mistakes og judging everyone for being without a moral compass (which most still are), and just minding my own business, its as if mars/saturn finally started working together instead of constantly fighting. I still often feel tense, that doesnt really go away, but i’m catching it more now, being concious and turning that enormous power to something constructive rather than self-destructive.
Honestly, sometimes i feel this aspect is like a curse, it makes everything that much harder to accomplish, an up-hill battle in practically everything, but i wouldn’t change it for the world. The will is so strong here, that when used positively, it can move mountains, and one doesn’t find that quality so often.
Thanks for the article :-)
Hi Julitta, thank you for commenting and sharing your experience of natal Mars opposing Saturn and Uranus. Great to see how the Mars Saturn dynamic is evolving in your awareness! Uranus adds extra charge to this combination, which means both positive or not-so-positive expression will be amplified.
How timely! Mars in my chart is conjunct Uranus and opposite Saturn. It is at 29 Leo and currently receiving a square from transiting Saturn. Your article helped me see in a new light the “futility” I feel towards self-assertion… always thwarted by obstacles, big and small… Very insightful, and I can definitely relate to “seething resentment”. Thank you!
Hi Nadia, thank you for commenting. Glad you resonated with the article, with your Mars Saturn opposition. Uranus adds extra intensity to the combination, so it will be a powerful aspect once you release the suppressed emotions.
I have lived with Mars / Pluto/ Saturn opp. Merc. Venus/S Node (12h) for almost 68 years. Because Saturn rules my 2nd h, I have had money challenges my entire life. Through it all I have developed a respectful r’ship w money. I am bold enough to say that I probably have a healthier r’ship w money than many folks who actually have a lot of money. Living on the edge financially has greatly helped me strengthen my ability to trust that life supports me. Saturn has turtle energy quality so I keep counting on my ‘ship coming in’. I found your comments about Mars/Saturn to be very insightful. Thanks for your great writing…
Hi Laurel, thank you for commenting and sharing your experience! That’s a good insight about Saturn’s rulership of the 2nd house and how it shaped your relationship with money.