The Meaning of 12th House in Astrology
What does it mean to have planets in the 12th house?
12th house in astrology represents the realm of collective unconscious. Planets in the 12th house suggest twofold potentials: You can use them to tap into unseen realms for inspiration, or lose a part of yourself by suppressing their desires. When operating unconsciously, 12th house planets can represent negative, self-limiting patterns within our own mind.
Whether your twelfth house planet is being suppressed or is turning self-destructive, it’s possible to transform its expressions through self-awareness.
We’ll explore the following planets in the 12th house:
- Sun in 12th house
- Moon in 12th house
- Mercury in 12th house
- Venus in 12th house
- Mars in 12th house
- Jupiter in 12th house
- Saturn in 12th house
- Uranus in 12th house
- Neptune in 12th house
- Pluto in 12th house
- Bonus: Transit to your 12th house planets
Planets in the 12th House: Self-Limiting vs Transformed Expressions
Here are the possible expressions of natal 12th house planets, including both self-limiting and self-empowering patterns:
12th House Sun: Hiding the Self
Twelfth House Sun in Trouble – Suppressed Self Expression
Sun in 12th house may point out beliefs that limit your pride and pleasure in expressing yourself. As a result, there may be a “once-removed” quality about you, so people don’t quite understand you as you really are.
If the Sun is near the Ascendant (less than 7 degrees), the pattern may shift from being withdrawn to acting confident. Until your ego is sufficiently healed, you might feel the need to adopt a persona that acts confident and proud, perhaps even through criticism.
Twelfth House Sun Empowered – Exploring Subtle, Unseen Realms
Sun in 12th house can transform through exploring subtle, unseen realms:
- Mohandas Gandhi and Dalai Lama both have their Sun in 12th house, suggesting this placement’s potential for spiritual purpose as well as dedication for one’s vision.
- Illusionist David Copperfield has his Sun in 12th house, which is subtle, creative self expression.
- Alexander Graham Bell’s Sun was in the twelfth house – he successfully invented the telephone system through understanding the subtle science of sound and electronics.
12th House Moon: Hidden Needs and Emotions
Twelfth House Moon in Trouble – Unconscious Feelings
Moon in 12th house may suggest unconscious beliefs that prevent you from honoring your needs and emotions. Perhaps expressing your emotion was not safe while growing up, or the adults did not pay enough attention to how you felt and what you needed.
As a result, you may have a hard time recognizing your own feelings – be they pain, joy or a need to pursue something.
If the Moon is near the Ascendant, the expression may shift to acting out the emotions without fully understanding them. You may adopt a caretaker persona while not fully being able to take care of your own needs.
Twelfth House Moon Empowered – Creativity and Vision
With the Moon in 12th house, the soul (Moon) could be hiding deep within the realm of the unconscious, perhaps available in the form of images, dreams and creative inspiration. This is a fertile ground for visionaries and creative artists of all types.
12th house Moon also seems to indicate a desire to support others or make events happen from behind the scenes (especially if the Moon is far from the Ascendant).
The people below are good examples of an empowered twelfth house Moon:
- Visionary painter and poet William Blake’s Moon was in 12th house. He delved deeply into the twelfth house realm of unconscious, developing his own mythology.
- Paramhansa Yogananda, the author of Autobiography of a Yogi, had his Moon in 12th house. His lifelong exploration into the spiritual realms was strongly rooted in his feelings and intuition (the Moon).
- Abraham Lincoln’s Moon was in twelfth house. In addition to being a visionary, Lincoln was a government administrator (government institution being a 12th house realm), dealing with behind the scenes political maneuvers in order to achieve his vision.
12th House Mercury: Veiled Thoughts & Communications
Twelfth House Mercury in Trouble – Negative Thought Patterns
Mercury in the 12th house might suggest unconscious patterns that compromise your ability to communicate effectively or directly. The way your parents communicated to you and to each other might provide important clues: How did that affect your thinking and speech patterns?
If Mercury is near the Ascendant, your communication style could be your defining quality (for better or worse). Learning to think and communicate clearly, without baggage from the past, becomes a serious need in order to navigate relationships.
Twelfth House Mercury Empowered – Mastering an Esoteric Craft
Mercury in 12th house can transform through mastering an esoteric craft, or by learning the intricacies of behind-the-scenes workings in any field. Here are some examples of an empowered 12th house Mercury:
- Former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has 5 planets in 12th house including Mercury, reflecting his long career in political administration (a 12th house field). Interestingly, his successor Gordon Brown also has a stellium in 12th house including Mercury.
- Singer Johnny Cash had 3 planets in 12th house including Mercury. In addition to mastering his music craft, he was well-known for singing about and performing in prisons, which are 12th house institutions.
- Astrologer Alan Leo also had 3 planets in 12th house including his Mercury. As a devout theosophist, he incorporated many spiritual concepts such as karma and reincarnation into his astrological work.
12th House Venus: Private Ideals and Relationships
Twelfth House Venus in Trouble – Fears about Relationships
Venus in 12th house might point to limiting beliefs about relationships.
If your parents had been poor role models for relationships (either through criticism, rejection or abandonment), you may find it difficult to fully accept yourself and articulate your needs in relationships.
Astrologers often say that twelfth house Venus suggests hidden affairs. However, a private affair is more a symptom of a dysfunctional 12th house Venus rather than its fate. When the Venus person does not value herself enough, she may settle for unavailable partners.
Another expression of 12th house Venus is a sense of private ideals that you secretly hold within. This sense of idealism might be rooted in disappointments from early home relationships. It may be your psyche’s attempt to heal past wounds by fixing what happened in the past.
If Venus is near the Ascendant, you may develop a graceful, charming persona as a survival mechanism.
Twelfth House Venus Empowered – Refined Aesthetic Sensitivity
A 12th house Venus can transform through embracing her need for solitude at times. You need a space where you can feel calm and at ease, to develop greater emotional awareness. Allowing this space to recharge yourself can have positive impact on your relationships.
Art is another empowered 12th house Venus expression. Artists of all kinds perceive beauty (color, sound or feelings) differently from others. Their refined imagination allows them to bring their inspiration to life. See below for some examples of empowered Venus in twelfth house:
- Actress Meryl Streep has Venus in 12th house. She has received numerous awards for her ability to create (or get inside) various characters.
- Composer George Gershwin had his Venus in 12th house.
- Mathematician John Nash had 4 planets in 12th house including Venus. His field of abstract mathematics certainly required refined imagination.
12th House Mars: Hidden Anger
Twelfth House Mars in Trouble – Unhealthy Anger
Mars in 12th house may suggest unconscious taboo against expressing anger. If you were not allowed to express anger while growing up, the emotions of anger or even rage could be suppressed.
The hidden anger could come up in destructive ways, especially in an intimate relationship.
The first step is to get in touch with the suppressed anger, and learn how to work with them in a constructive manner.
If Mars is near the Ascendant, you might adopt an aggressive persona to defend yourself.
Twelfth House Mars Empowered – Channeling Energy into Vision
You can transform the 12th house Mars by ‘owning the anger’ and channeling its energy into demanding pursuits. 12th house Mars may also suggest an interest in exploring paranormal realms.
Below are some examples of an empowered 12th house Mars:
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had 6 planets in 12th house, including his Mars in Gemini. He played numerous sports including cricket, rugby and boxing. While practicing medicine, he wrote as a diversion, eventually creating the character Sherlock Holmes. He was known for having serious interest in spiritualism and parapsychology.
- Stephen King has his Mars in 12th house. His deep imagination is successfully being channeled into writing stories. The stories he writes deal with fear and the paranormal.
- Arnold Schwarzenegger has his Mars in 12th house. He channeled his energy into bodybuilding, then into acting and later politics (a 12th house realm).
12th House Jupiter: Hidden Inspiration
Twelfth House Jupiter in Trouble – The Escapist
Jupiter in 12th house suggests that inspiration and reward may need to come from spiritual or intuitive realms. It’s possible that difficulties in your outer circumstance forced you to look for answers from another dimension.
Many astrologers call Jupiter in twelfth house “the guardian angel,” which suggests some supernatural grace operating in one’s life. While this could be true, finding that grace might require some work on your part.
A 12th house Jupiter could become dysfunctional if you lose hope and fall into excessive, escapist behaviors. The inspiration is available, but the path to find it might be a less traveled one.
If Jupiter is near the Ascendant, you may develop an confident, exuberant persona. The ego’s influence might be strong with this position.
Twelfth House Jupiter Empowered – Faith and Inspiration
Jupiter in 12th house can transform through faith or inspiration. Introspective practices such as writing, prayer or meditation may serve this purpose. Or you might find ways to access the uplifting energy through creative channels.
Here are some examples of empowered 12th house Jupiter:
- American author and spiritual teacher Ram Dass has Jupiter in 12th house. His exploration took him from psychology to experimenting with LSD to finding a guru in India.
- Philosopher and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson had his Jupiter in twelfth house. Initially a pastor, the loss of his first wife led a deeper spiritual quest that eventually established him as one of America’s most influential thinkers.
- Psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross had her Jupiter in 12th house. Her extensive work on the dying led to the proposal of the famous Five Stages of Grief.
12th House Saturn: Hidden Determination
Twelfth House Saturn in Trouble – Giving Away Control
Saturn in 12th house represents a hidden part of you that is responsible and can “take charge” of life. If this part of you operates unconsciously, you might give your sense of control away to other people or institutions. The sense of control, then, is projected outside of yourself, which would make you feel powerless or resentful.
With a twelfth house Saturn, there may be a sense of being given unwanted responsibilities early on. Learning to accept responsibility for your choices is a big part of transforming this Saturn position.
If Saturn is near the Ascendant, you may exhibit a serious attitude from a young age, perhaps through necessity. A sense of purpose is important so as not to be crushed under the weight of responsibility.
Twelfth House Saturn Empowered – Accepting Responsibility
Saturn in 12th house becomes powerful when you decide to be the one in control of your life. You may even decide to become the change agent within a large system, by accepting larger responsibilities.
Saturn in twelfth house carries a lot of determination, and finding a worthy challenge is the way to tap into it.
These are some examples of empowered 12th house Saturn:
- Former US President Barack Obama has Saturn in 12th house, and so does George W. Bush. Government and administration of large institutions (a 12th house arena) fit the twelfth house Saturn’s symbolism.
- Michael J. Fox has his Saturn in 12th house. After diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease, he became an advocate for finding a cure for the disease and created the Michale J Fox foundation for Parkinson’s Research. He transformed his personal challenge into an important movement in the health field.
- Astrologer Robert Hand has a 12th house Saturn. In his 2013 NORWAC lecture “Saturn as Benefic,” he shared that 12th house is the house of contemplation. He also said “Saturn claims for himself a life sequestered and divine,” so its placement in the 12th house is a natural fit (hence 12th house is called the “Joy of Saturn”). A 12th house Saturn certainly seems to reflect Hand’s scholarly focus and accomplishment.
12th House Uranus: Hidden Genius
Twelfth House Uranus in Trouble – Being an Outcast
Uranus in 12th house suggests hidden quirks and individuality. This position could give rise to a feeling of being “different” from others, even of being an outcast.
In your quest to discover your individuality, you may follow the path of a rebel or an eccentric. Until you find and develop your unique gift, you may continue to feel alienated from others.
If Uranus is near the Ascendant, you may develop an intense, unique interest early in life, perhaps out of necessity.
Twelfth House Uranus Empowered – Finding Your Unique Genius
Uranus in 12th house can suggest a highly unique and creative talent within. It can also suggest progressive ideas that can impact society and institutions.
Here are some people with a highly active 12th house Uranus:
- Steven Spielberg has his Uranus in 12th house. In early life he suffered from anti-Semitic prejudice and bullying.
- Ursula K Le Guin has her Uranus in twelfth house. In 2016, New York Times called her America’s greatest living science fiction writer.
- Famous 19th century astrologer and theosophist Isabelle Pagan had her Uranus in 12th house.
12th House Neptune: Boundless Imagination
Twelfth House Neptune in Trouble – Lost at Sea
Neptune in 12th house feels at home, since Neptune rules dreams, visions and imagination – a 12th house realm. The result is that you may have a strong capacity for accessing the unconscious part of your mind.
The trouble only comes if there is no positive direction to guide your imagination. If your mind is troubled by violent or fear-filled impressions, your imagination might add fuel to your anxiety by envisioning horrible scenarios.
If Neptune is near the Ascendant, you need to develop a creative outlet through which to express yourself. Otherwise, you may have a hard time asserting yourself the way other people do.
Twelfth House Neptune Empowered – Imagination and Achievement
By having a productive focus, Neptune in 12th house becomes a powerhouse of ideas and inspiration.
Here are some people with empowered 12th house Neptune:
- Author and minister Norman Vincent Peale, who wrote the Power of Positive Thinking, had 4 planets including Neptune in the 12th house.
- Scientist and inventor Nikola Tesla also had Neptune in 12th house.
- Indira Gandhi, the first and only female Prime Minister of India to date, had Neptune in 12th house.
12th House Pluto: Soulful Perspective
Twelfth House Pluto in Trouble – Loss of Meaning
Pluto represents the deeper, more soulful part of you. If this part of you is largely unconscious, Pluto in 12th house can feel as if you’re only half present in life. The deeper meaning of life could be lost in the sea of collective drama, e.g. the stories told by TV and internet.
If Pluto is near the Ascendant, you may feel drawn to the deeper aspects of life, which may lead to dramatic transformation later in life.
Twelfth House Pluto Empowered – Powerful Perspective
Pluto in 12th house reflects a deep well of power that fuels your personality. It can suggest organizational (institutional) or intuitive (creative or spiritual) expressions – either way, you’re dealing with forces that are larger than your ego.
Here are some people with active 12th house Pluto:
- US Army General Norman Schwarzkopf had 3 planets including Mars and Pluto in his 12th house. He was highly regarded for his effective leadership during the Gulf War.
- Tina Turner has her Pluto in 12th house. Aside from her soulful singing, she is known as a practicing Buddhist.
- Muhammad Ali had his Pluto in 12th house. His conversion to Islamic faith led to his name change (from Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali.)
Bonus: Transit to Your 12th House Planets
What does a transit to your 12th house planet suggest?
One meaning of 12th house is that of uncovering what was previously hidden. When transiting Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto activate the 12th house planets, you may discover hidden issues related to the affected planet. One possibility is that you’re forced to deal with unhealthy patterns you’ve been repeating unconsciously.
By bringing such issues to your consciousness, transits to 12th house planets can create opportunities for letting go of old, toxic patterns. By letting go of the self-limiting patterns from your past, you begin to transform yourself into someone new. This will prepare you to redefine your self-image when the transit reaches the 1st house.
Share Your Experience with 12th House Planets
What is your experience with the 12th house planets in your horoscope?
Do you have natal planets in the 12th house? How have you experienced them in your life? Feel free to share your thoughts and insights in the comment section.
Thank you so much for this amazing information. In my 12th House/Taurus…I have my Sun (5°), conjunct to Saturn (11°), then Mercury (22°) and then Venus (28°). I am a Gemini rising (conjuct Venus and conjuct Mars, either side)…with my Moon in the 8th House/Capricorn (8°). I am very spiritual, as well as an artist in every sense of the word (musician, dancer, actress, visual artist)…and I love numbers, crystals, and astrology! 💗💗💗
Good morning.
Thank you for this article. Some of yours helped me to understand some issues.
Do you confirm me that if a planet transits in my twelfth house, I have to let go self destructive and limiting behaviours?
Thank you very much!
Hi Erika, planets transiting in 12th house might be a good time to let go of things, to prepare for the beginning of a new cycle (when the planet reaches the Ascendant).
Thank you very much for your answer.
So could it be letting go bad habits and self-defeating behaviours?
Thank you very much!
Have a nice day!
For sure, if that is what you’d like to let go of.
Thanks a lot for your answers, articles and your time!
Have a nice day!
Kind regards
12th house Capricorn Sun moon Mercury and Mars (mats in the 12th but on my asc.) Well… it’s been a wild ride with my ego/identity. I fully resonated with your descriptions, thank you for taking the time to be thoughtful and thorough, Hiroki. Growing up I had the transits of Chiron, uranus and Neptune through my 12th, but these last 10 years were far different. It’s as if they transits of the 80-90’s left me more confused/foggy and now I’m clear. The next leg of the journey begins with incorporating who I am, what I’ve discovered about myself and finally standing in my power. I wouldn’t trade a moment of the experience.
Hello Gina, thank you for sharing your experience! Nicely said.
Hello, I have jupiter in 11/12th house (house shift since it is a few degrees near next house with placidus houses) in libra and scorpio rising.
I feel that escapism and it is causing much problems in my life i think.
But maybe its also due to my sun conjunct neptune and venus in pisces..
I feel drawn to astrology and metaphysics and such things. Also like to express myself rather in painting than in words.
“You may adopt a caretaker persona while not being fully able to take care of your own needs.”
A shot to the heart! Not that this archetype isn’t common throughout humanity.
Your dualism takes here are interesting and relatable – everything exists on a spectrum…
My own “hmm/aha”; Pisces and Aquarius dominate my chart (collectively accounting for 7 placements).
My Sun is Pisces, Moon is Aquarius, and both are in the 12th House.
Duality abounds.
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for sharing! How about Chiron in 12H?
Hi, Chiron in 12th house may suggest potential inclination toward spiritual or esoteric healing art. For it to actually manifest, the rest of the horoscope needs to support such inclination.
12th house in Mars, Saturn, Pluto, also Ascendant in Libra- very interested in Astrology but find it difficult to really figure myself out- been a hard- knock life but very aware that others have it much, MUCH worse. I was in a car accident in Dec 2020 after a HUGE spiritual awareness discovery- God and Jesus are very much real- growing and changing and excited about the future- wondering how God will move but trying to be still with the process- God bless!
With Sun, Uranus, Venus in Leo in my 12th (whole sign house system), I consider myself a late bloomer. My Sun has taken forever to mature and come out, only when I decided to not care about upsetting others with my difference-ness. I never conformed, and always had to object to every idea. I explored spiritual practices of every kind, rejecting dogma in the end, to create my own. On the other hand, I sense this unconscious shadow of a buried relationship trauma, that has shown up in many ways in this life. I suspect that I probably carry it from my mother/father when I was born and they broke up forever.
Hi Hiroki
I’m just learning about my Sun-Mercury-Uranus-Pluto planets all conjunct in Virgo in the 12th House: being Virgo/Virgo Ascendant along with my 12th House feels like my self-esteem is taking multiple hits! I’ve been an over-achiever who never feels good enough or worthy enough.
So it seems like I must finally work through my 12th House issues, Pluto-style, one planet at a time. Try to release my Mercury-busy-brain ego and access the collective unconscious.
But meditating with Uranus-conjunct-Mercury (trine Neptune in Scorpio) is a real trip, so progress is slow. But Neptune goes retrograde in Pisces today! That might help.
Hi Gabriella,
Glad to know I’m not alone!
I’ve Sun, Venus, Mercury, Uranus, Pluto and Ascendant in Virgo!
And I’ve a Stellium of Sun, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter and Pluto in the 12th House!
Feeling a sense of enlightenment to learn of what the 12th House means to my whole existence in this physical realm!
Hi, Kathryn, I missed this. What steps are you taking to improve the 12th House’s affect on your life?
I’m still struggling to be nicer to myself, but meditation has helped me focus the universal love and empathy I’ve always felt deep down.
Hi my name is Martin and I have this aspect it’s pretty intense and has been for a awhile.. I’m not 100 percent sure If it’s this aspect doin the work I’m experiencing but my all about me is changing. Down to how I love, who my time was goin toward, living in a dream world and this world is very helpful. I been soul searching for years and I am starting to believe I found myself. I have a Pluto in 12th house trine chiron in 8th. It’s unbelievable I promise, and if I wasn’t wxperiencing what I am I couldn’t believe it.. astrology changed my life.. Thank heavens for my life
Hello,
I am being leo asc and having sun in 12th house along with moon. Always inclined towards foreign countries.
Sorry, sun with mercury in 12th house.
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for sharing this article with us. I have found it and the comments thread to be very helpful and confirming. I have natal Jupiter in the 12th house. I certainly have addictive and escapist tendencies, and with regard to the guardian angel theme of this placement, I have felt this. My grandmother often told me I must have a lot of angels around me with all I have been through and with how things work out for me. I feel connections and sensitivities to the unseen realms and have been working on uncovering my true self and releasing limiting beliefs, patterns and aspects of myself for a very long time.
Sun, Mercury, Venus and, briefly, Moon, are all transiting my 12th house, and the North Node (conj my Gemini Asc) is moving into the 12th as well. Can you please share one point of significance of this stellium?
Thank you so much!
Hi Matthew, thank you for sharing your thoughts with Jupiter in 12th house. Regarding the transits in your 12th house, that cluster tends to travel in groups once a year in your 12th house (activating your Jupiter), so it would be interesting to journal what gets activated in your dreams, imagination as well as how you feel during that season.
Thank you Hiroki. My dreams have always been quite vivid. I have been working with someone to help Me interpret and understand my dreams.
Hello my Sun and Moon are both in Scorpio, Ascendant Capricorn. I have Saturn, Uranus and Neptune all Capricorn and in 12 house.
What’s your thoughts on my 12th house placements?
Hi Elizabeth, 12th house stellium or multiple 12th house planets emphasize the theme of hidden reality, which is many times related to spirituality, but in some cases behind-the-scenes work that goes on in a large institution. For a full analysis please consider scheduling a private session.
Me too, except i have Sun Taurus, Moon Leo, but my ascendant is cap and saturn, uranus and neptune all capricorn 12th house. Theres more to these placements, I just know it!
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for the detailed and uplifting descriptions you have here! Astrology has been fascinating to learn and I believe it should be shared as a tool for empowerment (rather than doom). I have my sun and asc in scorpio and 3 12th house planets (pluto, sun and saturn). It is great to learn how I can make the best use of them! I completely agree with James when it comes to the deterministic view that is frequently presented. Thankfully, it is all about how you interpret it: Hiroki being a great example! I have a very similar experience to James, with people unloading their deepest feelings/problems; love to see them feel lighter afterwards! we are all humans in the end)
Thank you, Hiroki!! Keep on inspiring people!!
Thank you Lilly! Glad you enjoyed it.
Hello, just like mine. I am Gemini ascendant, with Jupiter in my 12th. I found relationships really hard to hold on to. Basically I cannot. I kind of lost my faith I have been alone for some time now…I am working on getting my faith back and hopefully my guardian Angel will help me out here. Matthew How are you doing relationshipwise?
I have sun, mercury, mars and pluto in Scorpio AND all in the 12th house aswell as Scorpio ascendant. I’m not sure what this could mean for me? Could somebody try to help me understand?
I also have mercury and Neptune in Scorpio in my 12th as well as Scorpio ascendant. I, too, wonder what this means.
Hii im john Wondering how many degrees does is too wide for it to still be conscious from 12th house to the ascendant.
I have pluto and mars in 12 house
Hi John, if you mean conjunction to the Ascendant from the 12th house, probably you would consider around 7-8 degrees to be the orb. However, even if the planets are farther away from the Ascendant, they will most likely come into focus when they reach the Ascendant through solar arc (or progression).
Hello Hiroki,
Jupiter, Mars, and the south node are in my 12th house natal chart. My gifts seem to lie in Philosophy and Spirituality. I am a quiet person but people seem drawn to me. They tell me about their problems and unload their secrets. I have his uncanny ability to bring them peace or make them question themselves. It’s like I can see right through people into their cores. They call me insightful but I am first and foremost a skeptic and an anarchist of the mind. While I find astrology useful in its ancient symbolism I’ve come to see it as too deterministic at a personal level. My original feelings have always been more Taoist in principle. You have a very simple and insightful way of presenting your writing and I enjoyed the reading.
Hi James, thank you for sharing your experience with Jupiter, Mars and South Node in your 12th house. Sounds like you found a productive & helpful way to direct your 12th house energy!
Hi Hiroki
What does it mean when my sun doesn’t angle? In addition, mars and pluto take heavy angles in the 12th house. I cope with anxiety and feel lost. What can you say how can I improve?
thanks
Hello, if you mean unaspected Sun, there is an article for that here. For a serious discussion about your life please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for the explanation. It is very interesting. If you do not mind I would like to share my experience. I have both 12H (Pluto, Sun, and Mercury) and 1H (Ascendant, Jupiter, Moon, Mars, and Venus) stelliums and all of it is in Sagittarius. The instability is really hard to handle but I think the 12H stellium is the most challenging part of it.
My 12H starts at Scorpio, and there I have Pluto, Sun and Mercury in Sagittarius. They are all in close conjunctions in the earliest degrees of Sagittarius. Pluto (0°31’18”) and Mercury (1°37’38”) are both combust (Sun 1°11’59”). I have been thinking about how these placements, especially in 12H, affect me.
All my life I’ve been dealing with bouts of mental illness. I’ve tried ending my own life multiple times. The last one resulted in my being sent into psychiatric care. Since then I’ve received diagnoses of depression, anxiety disorder, BPD, and Asperger.
Generational trauma runs in my family. My parents weren’t from happy families. My abusive father probably has depression but never wants to consult a professional. My mother (Scorpio sun, Pisces moon) has self sacrificing tendencies. She lets my father make her very unhappy. When I was a child she’d leash out on me, whom she thought resemble her husband the most. She’d threaten me saying “if you don’t do this you don’t love me”. She’s still emotionally manipulative. Growing up, I internalized the message that loving means to give, give, and give yourself completely to the person you love and never taking up any place yourself. It’s a toxic belief that I am learning to unlearn.
But being the scapegoat in an unstable family, I’ve developed unhealthy coping mechanisms such as dissociation. I detach from reality, which is often painful. I’m in my own head so much, I feel that I’m only sleepwalking through a life essentially unlived.
I feel that having Mercury and Pluto combust, plus all of them huddled closely in 12H, the house of self-undoing, means a self trapped in a mind (Mercury) that has difficulty expressing thoughts (12H). It doesn’t help that the mind is stuck in paranoia. A mind that obsesses over pain and the feeling that, being mentally ill, I am hopeless against the world (Pluto). A self-victimizing worldview that eats the self from inside and traps me in an endless cycle of self-hatred. And it’s really difficult to get out of it, because it all happens in the obsessive subconscious.
It’s something I’ve only recently realized, as I was only diagnosed 2 years ago and started getting into astrology last year. Astrology (as well as treatment, medications, writing, and mindfulness) has helped me understand why I’m trapped in self-destructive behaviors and thoughts. It’s been really hard. But I think Mercury, Sun, and Pluto in such close conjunction can be a powerful tool for thorough self-transformation through the mind. I hope I can get there someday.
Thank you for the opportunity to share, it feels good to let some of that out.
Hello Kat, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house Pluto, Sun and Mercury triple conjunction. I also feel Mindfulness is a wonderful transformational tool, and has much to do with the 12th house experience.
Hi, i have Moon in 12th house in square to Pluto in 8th house. I go to psychotherapy and i have a problem with recognizing my needs and emotions and so taking actions. If i knew how i feel and what i need, i would be more brave to take action. Moon is in a sign of Aquarius, a bit cold on outside, but very warm inside. Soon i will have Saturn transiting my Moon, so i know things will change. This is a lovely article. ♡♡♡
Hi Andjelka, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house Moon!
Hi! I found this very helpful, but thought I would add my own more physical/bodily manifestation of my 12th house mars here.
I have Mars in Scorpio in the 12th house ruled by my Pluto in Sagittarius in my 1st house, with a Virgo stellium – I think my Mars has a lot to do with learning to heal physical inflammatory health issues/inherited DNA from my family (or past lives). The day I was diagnosed with diabetes at the age of twelve my progressed Mars was conjunct my natal Scorpio ASC and progressed ASC conjunct my natal Pluto. The transiting moon in Pisces was also conjunct my progressed moon, both of which were conjunct my natal south node in Pisces in my fourth house (opposing my natal virgo mercury, sun, MC, north node and moon in the 9th/10th).
A lot of my teenage life I felt very disempowered regarding taking control of my physical health, however after various other inflammatory health problems and after living by myself away from home I have started to utilise more holistic ways of healing and have completely transformed by diet and lifestyle choices, which I think is the proper manifestation of my Mars exactly sextile my Virgo sun & MC. I also relate to the idea of being a “fighter” on behalf of collective issues relating to my own personal Mars problems.
Hopefully a fellow Mars in the 12th can relate to this! Thanks for the helpful post.
Hi Amelia, thank you very much for sharing your experience with the 12th house Mars. This is very valuable!
My 12th house is in Scorpio and Mercury. I’ve been told this is Malefic. I was curious how the Malefic side will affect me. I am also Mercury Ruled. During a transit, will a Conjuction enhance my Mercury/12th house energy, or will it behave like it normally does?
Hi Jordan, it may depend on whether you’ve been able to express your Mercury in a constructive way so far. I also don’t believe a 12th house placement makes a planet automatically malefic.
Hello Hiroki,
I enjoyed your insights very much, thank you. My 17 year old son has a stellium in the 12th house.
Asc Gemini; Mercury, Mars, Venus, Saturn as well as Sun in Taurus & the North Node also residing there in the 12th. There’s been mixed reactions over the years from pros giving it much weight but I feel it definitely shows through. He has been an elite athlete & struggled with health as of late. My main goal was always to know how to use the information I could find to best support him. Best to you.
Thank you for sharing your son’s experience – best of luck with his recovery.
All of the examples of sun in 12th house are men.
Since I think that women’s egos have historically been repressed: it would be more insightful if you listed some women, as well.
Good point Anne – I didn’t mean to be gender biased at all in researching well known 12th house figures. Feel free to bring up other examples of 12th house expressions and share here.
Hi Hiroki, what do you think of having Venus retrograde in the 12th House?
Hi Amparo, Venus energy, when retrograde, might mean there are emotions that don’t get expressed enough, which makes relating challenging. 12th house placement might echo this symbolism. The key may be in understanding what emotions you’re feeling, and be clear about what emotions you want to express to your loved ones.
So i actually don’t have anything in my 12th house & i keep trying to find information about that but i’m not having much luck.
Astrology is my passion! And I am having the greatest time finding out about my path in this world. I have Jupiter, Moon (in Scorpio), Pluto and Saturn (in Libra) all 4 in the 12th house. Sun in Taurus and rising in Scorpio. Anything that comes to your mind when you read that? I really appreciate your time! I hope one day be able to help much more people than my family and close friends, just like you do! So thank you!
Hi Vee, 12th house stellium emphasizes the potential for connecting with unseen or hidden realms. There are many expressions of this energy like you see on this article. For a detailed discussion please consider scheduling a private session.
Okay.. um.. that’s crazy! Because I ALSO have Jupiter Saturn Moon Pluto all in 12th house!
Asc in scorp..
Sun in Cap
Moon libra
Wow
So what does it mean by unseen? Like ghost? Or psychic? Or?
Hi Sonia, “unseen” can be in a sense of accessing your hidden internal resources like creativity or realms of dreams (or Jung’s Collective Unconscious). In other cases the “hidden” realms can include the secret workings within a large institutions or even governments.
Hello Hiroki,
Thank you for a very insightful article. I’m new to astrology. Recently began studying it as a tool to heal my self. Now i’m studying my chart and that of my newborn. I’ve been particularly drawn to her the 12th house in hers and mine and not sure what to make of it.
She’s got a Stellium of Mars, Uranus and Chiron while I only have Chiron. I’ve been doing a lot of healing work on myself and generally trying to be a better mom for her. Her Stellium suggest a lot of suppressed anger which surprises me because I don’t know how that can possible be the case with all the work i’m doing on myself. And my husband and I have work really hard on building a safe environment for our family. Can you offer some insight here please?
She also has 2 additional Stelliums it changes anything:
11th house (Mercury, Neptune, Sun)
9th House (Saturn, Venus, Pluto)
Thanks in advance.
Hannah
Hi Hannah, when you’re using astrology to support your children, it’s best not to speculate on worst possibilities! I would encourage you to consider the areas of creativity and spirituality as potential ways to connect with the unseen realms (see the “empowered” potentials I listed in the articles for your inspiration). The areas of spirituality would also positively activate her 9th house planets as well.
Thank you for all the information Hiroki, it is very insightful. I will share with you my experience with my planets in the twelfth house. I have a stellium of the sun, mercury and pluto in my twelfth house in virgo. And I was pleasantly surprised to read that the Dalai Lama and Ghandi have their sun in the twelfth house too. They have been examples to me in their political and spiritual roles on the international stage. Both had/have a mission in life, but with that came many political enemies.
When I was rising in my former field of work quite some years ago, I decided I did not want to continue to carry the political responsibility that I had taken upon me. 911 had just occurred and I did not want to follow the example of men like Ghandi or Mandela anymore. Too much strife and political enemies that route would bring, I thought. And I chose the safe way out. I thought …
The decision brought about total transformation, but it came with many hardships, failures and sacrifices for years to come (my pluto also close to the ascendant). This very trying transformaton came into full swing with a terrible experience, just when I had finished reading a book written by the Dalai Lama. It was my first acquaintance with his teachings. And it has made me realise later on, that even the best of spiritual teachings, can have a darker side to them.
But I had chosen to follow a more spiritual path and I carried on my path. As I thought the true collective evolution after 911 would be a spiritual one and not a political one. And I eventually found work that was less abstract and in direct contact with people, with a focus on their physical and spiritual health and well being. As the Dalai Lama wrote in one of his books:” you can meditate, but you need to put that state of mind into practice.” And that is what I started to practice with my needles, as I became an acupuncturist.
I found my way and also have personal time for creative and spiritual outlet. But I have realized that trying to escape my hidden enemies in the world of politics, brought me enemies who were ever more hidden and elusive. Enemies who remained hidden for many years, who were very destructive in my life, but also pushed me into further transformation and creativity.
It has made me realize that the hidden enemies in the 12th house could and can not be escaped by me. These enemies brought about a lot of pain and harm in my life. But eventually they did become unmasked when the time was right and I was able to perceive the hidden truth. Many hidden aspects in my life were unveiled, coinciding with a progressed new moon. And I have realised that in the end, their role in my life has had a purpose.
And just think about it. Gandhi and the Dalai Lama would never have become the men they are now, without their enemies. Enemies who probably taught them, in reflection, to fully accept themselves and embrace their own darker side too.
It is not an easy lesson, this twelfth house experience. But it can also be very rewarding when you accept and no longer fight it and trust that the answers will come, when the time is right. Especially on a spiritual level, the experience can be very rewarding. It can bring deep understanding and insights, that help you evolve and make you realize who you truly are. And as you evolve you can help others along the way.
My experience is, that even though planets in the twelfth house can bring about much pain and suffering, they are also truly miraculous when their energy is activated to serve your highest well being. The activation of the planets for my own well being truly came about when my path brought me to astrology. Gradually everything fell into place and it has given me the answers and the truth that I needed.
Hi Elza, thank you for sharing your experience with your 12th house stellium – very thoughtfully told! Much appreciated.
Hello Hiraoki,
I have been searching for an article like this for almost a year since my son was born. When i discovered he has an stellium of Saturn, Mars and Pluto in the 12th house i feared the worst. Every article i have read, had only increased my anxiety. He also has an stellium in the 3rd house with the sun, mercury, venus and uranus and is asc aquarius. What would you recomend for a baby with this placements on his natal chart? He is an amazing , smart little guy, full of life and energy. Hope you can help me.
Hi Anne, hopefully the article gave you some perspective. Just know that your son probably has a capacity to be in tune with the “unseen” world. In childhood, this might be best explored through creative pursuits. A gentle storytelling about the loving, protecting God might work too.
“I eventually found work that was less abstract and in direct contact with people, with a focus on their physical and spiritual health and well being.”
Eliza,
I have a stellium in the 12th house too.
Virgo Sun uranus and pluto. With a Virgo Lilith moon and ascendant.
May I ask what you do now as a living?
I am drawn to physical and spiritual healing too. But my north node is in Leo in the 11th house so I know it might take on a different flavor.
Thanks!
I also have a stellium of sun, mercury, Uranus and Pluto in 12th house in Virgo. I have a lot of interest in developing spiritually, and jupiter aspects my 12th house from the 5th. I have had psychic experiences, clairaudience and seeing into the ether, but I haven’t developed these abilities, probably a bit of fear of what I will encounter. I have another stellium in my 4th house with moon, ketu, Saturn in Capricorn. So home and family are also of great importance to me. I’ve been going through a difficult transition lately, not sure how all will unfold, but I intend to use astrology to help people overcome their emotional problems.
Stacy, I have the same 4-planet Stellium in Virgo in the 12th. All opposite Saturn and square the moon. Good to know I’m not alone, anyway. Strong Mercury has driven a wedge between me and my intuition; trying to correct that.
I have Mars in the 12th house, 12°44 Cancer, with my North Node at 1°37 Leo and Ascendant at 2°01 Leo. (Mercury and Sun also in 1st house Leo). I have always found it difficult to express my anger and guilty for holding attention. Professionally, I seem to subconsciously incorporate my Leo leadership qualities with nurturing the confidence and skills of my subordinates. My staff always says that I know just how to say things to help them understand concepts or feel confident in their skills set.
I struggled with depression and codependent relationships until I found my confidence though adhering to a routine weight training schedule. Working out seems to help release my suppressed anger and frustration by getting lost in my music and battle of will with the weights.
Since my recent north node return, I’ve also found my passion for astrology, psychoanalysis, crystal energy and tarot.
The north node is illusive to us to begin with, but I feel extra lost in trying to “see” how to embrace my 12th house Leo north node. However, I believe I’m starting understand my direction by being aware and responsive to my intuitive guidance. Perhaps my north mission is to trust my intuition and respond unabashedly, like a confident Leo. My 12th house cardinal cancer Mars feels reluctant when listening to my Libra moon in the 4th when it’s coming from a logical perspective, but when I lean into my 5° orb Moon/Pluto conjunction, I “feel” empowered. My moon is my north node skipped step also.
Hi Danielle, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars in 12th house. Good for you!
Hi there! I love this article, thanks for all the information.
I’ve always struggled whether to listen to whole sign house placements or placidus. I know placidus is most comment but I’ve heard arguments from contemporary astrologers in favor of whole sign and I relate more to the placements when I think of my chart in terms of whole sign houses.
According to whole sign houses, I have Venus (2 degrees), Mercury (24), Jupiter (27) and Pluto (28) in Scorpio in the 12th house, my sun being 4 degrees of Sagittarius (ascendant at 29 degrees Sag). I’m definitely still trying to reconcile how these forces play out in my life but the “in trouble” and “empowered” sections really helped me think about how I can best use these placements to my advantage. So many 12th house Stellium articles are dark and dreary, speaking about some kind of forced isolation or exile that makes it seem like the natives are weird creatures removed from society! Anyway, thanks for the insights. Now to understand what 12th stellium in Scorpio could mean…
Hi Liz, if you resonate with whole sign houses, by all means…I’ve accumulated so much experience with Placidus, so that lens feels comfortable to me when looking at a horoscope.
I was quite content with placidus (and ‘settled’ with my placidus chart).
My whole houses chart is much more difficult to swallow, which is why I wished to dismiss it at first. I realized my bias and decided to look into it more closely through the whole house lens and begrudgingly began to experience more growth as I accepted the new placements and the shift. I like how you use the word ‘lens’ to describe the different methods.
Did your master/teacher teach in placidus too?
Hi there,
Yes, I was trained and certified by Noel Tyl who used Placidus, so there is a lot of accumulated instinct using this lens.
Hi Hiroki,
thank you for your article mentioning how to handle 12 house-issues. Sun, Moon, Mars in 12th house (9 degree), Ascendent Leo, too. All this leo-energy in the 12th house. I know I can be charismatic yet don’t come across as a typical Leo, it seems that nothing works in my life, I don’t feel I can get my point across, feel misunderstood very often, don’t get appreciation, feel that noone understands me,… Luckily I found a spiritual path… observing, equanimity, surrendering my strong will to ‘God’ (or whatever you may call it). I do struggle with myself and at the same time understand more and more and feel happier and happier… still struggling though…
Keep following that path.
I have my Sun and Jupiter in the twelfth house. You article once again is right on the nose.
My Leo sun doesn’t act like a typical Leo sun should. It’s a lot less bossy, and arrogant at the expense of self confidence. I had fairly sever social anxiety as a child and out grew that mostly around middle school, the time my progressed sun hit my ascendant. I still have baseline insecurities, but it’s not crippling like it used to be. I’m more capable of leading and have more confidence in myself as I am.
Jupiter in the 12th definitely feels like a guardian angel. Things just happen unexpectedly and out of nowhere when I need it most, that I would call coincidental good luck expect that it happens so often. It even seems to protect me from physical injury sometimes, once when I was 1 1/2yrs and somersaulted down the stairs. I broke my collar bone on the concrete floor, but was otherwise ok. It happened again 10 years later when I almost fell backwards off the stairs (I should probably watch out for stairs now that I think about it), I wasn’t able to get my balance and braced my self for impact, but I felt a pressure on my back, like a hand, push me back up. When I looked back, there was no one there. It sounds so crazy, if it hadn’t happened I wouldn’t have believed it.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Sun and Jupiter in the 12th house – that’s a powerful experience regarding the accident.
Thank you so much for sharing this story. I have sun, Mars and Mercury retrograde exact conjunct south node all in 12th house. Apparently I am a clear channel to the “other side”.
As an 8 year old I ran into the street directly in front a truck loaded with bricks. I clearly felt a “cushion” come between me and the truck that saved my life. I remember the sensation decades later.
Again, as an adult I was driving at night on a curvy four lane highway outside Roseburg, OR headed to Los Angeles. Going 60 mph, I took a blind curve in the right lane, and then “something” effortlessly steered my car into the left lane as I came around the blind curve, and there were two cars stopped having hit a deer, completely blocking the right lane I had just been in. A force saved me effortlessly at the last second from crashing into this group. I FELT IT take control of the car.
I have other experiences, and I’m just getting comfortable with them. I’m 64! Glad I’m not the only one!
Thank you, Hiroki, for this great article on 12th house planets. I especially appreciate your explanations of 12th house planets as “in trouble” and “empowered.”
I have Cancer on the 12th house with the Sun conjunct Mars, Uranus conjunct Ceres and Mercury in Leo with a Leo ascendant at 3 degrees. I appreciate reading the stories posted in the comments. I suspect that many, if not all of us, with planets in the 12th house often feel out-of-step with others and with the world in general.
Perhaps it is because we are so tuned-in to the collective unconscious, with all of its pain and suffering, that we isolate ourselves and embrace escapist behaviors on the “troubled” side of dealing with the energy or seek meaning and solutions through spirituality and metaphysics.
Most of us may never be able to make such huge contributions to society as did/do the amazing people you mentioned in your article. But I suspect many of us experience the need or the drive to try, even if it is only by achieving some kind of mastery over our own inner demons and, in the process, developing a much greater charity for others.
I also had an amazing experience many years while driving a friend to law school. We had both been up all night, when my friend announced it was time to leave and asked me to drive. It was just after dawn, my friend was asleep, and we were on a two-lane highway when I fell asleep at the wheel. I awoke on the other side of the reflector poles along the left hand side of the highway and reflexively swerved back on to the pavement. As the car fishtailed, I thought I was regaining control when suddenly, I “saw” a pair of hands grab the wheel. Instantly the car careened left across the highway, down into a ravine, and spun so hard when it stopped that it knocked both of the rear tires off the rims. Amazingly, neither my friend nor I were injured and the only damage to the car was a small puncture in the oil pan. When I looked backed towards the highway, I noticed that had the car swerved left any sooner we would have hit an embankment that ran along both sides of the highway. Any later and we would have flown into the air and crashed into the ravine. Instead, we “drove” down a dirt road that dropped into the ravine at the precise place where the car left the highway. It all happened so fast, but I will never forget “seeing” those hands on the wheel just before the car jerked to the left.
In spite of the often pain-filled challenges of mastering the energies of 12th house planets, I believe that transcendence of suffering is the gift we experience when we do. To then find a way to relieve the suffering of others would be the greatest gift of all.
Hi Boudicca, thank you for sharing your amazing experience and insights!
Hi Hiroki, My chart shows a Stellium in the 12th House, with Jupiter, Moon and Kiron in Aries, and with Sol in Taurus. I feel to agree about features such as inwardness, self expression through writing, creativity; spiritual inspiration and work. Impersonal sphere may cover the Govt and the Church as well. Now we are in Aries, when the Sol seems to activate all these energies. How can Aries and then Taurus make a 12th House Stellium specific? maybe impulsiveness, quest for innovation, originality, pioneering achievements…? irascibility, reactivity? i wonder if this may bring up intense and stressful dreaming at night, which sometimes happens. Kiron there has also been witness of an abuse about twenty years ago.
Hi Alex, these are all good thoughts as Mercury and Venus will begin to activate your Aries and Taurus planets in April and May…
12th house scorpio stellium sun Saturn pluto Neptune also sun and pluto are close to ascendant in scorpio and mercury is less than 4 degrees from ascendant so also in scorpio. Unranus conj venus in first house but house is askew so those 2 planets are in Sagittarius .
Ok so I’m psychic. Yet others think im making shit up. I dont care , I know what I know. Massive obstacles, moon in 3rd house in Saturn which is malifec.
I’m stellium stellium stellium . Only have planets in 4 houses, in 3 signs. sag cap and scorpio. Scorpio is most .
12 house 1st house 2nd house and 3rd house. That’s it. All other houses empty.
My chart changes the meaning of every thing in it by the placements and I would be shocked if any one has any insights into how to even read my chart correctly. I’ve been very quiet for 20 years then would not shut up for 10 yrs . Now I’m in middle . Lol but I have messages and damnit , I’m Gone deliver them. I dont want them. And I refuse to be told not too. In any way .
I not give up, I never give in.
Hi Lauren!
Newbie to the astrological world and I ran across this post trying to make sense of my 12th house Scorpio stellium which includes the Moon, Saturn, and Pluto. I also have a 1st house stellium with Scorpio rising, Scorpio sun, & Mercury plus Uranus in Sagittarius. My 2nd house is bundled with Neptune in Sagittarius and Venus plus Jupiter in Capricorn. Only other house occupied is the 3rd house with Mars in Aquarius… Everything else is empty, which is how I’ve been feeling for as long as I can remember.
I know that I’m different than most, I see good in the worst, and I have a keen desire to help others overcome adversity. Especially since I can surely relate to based off the many adverse scenarios I’ve endured in my 34 years.
I’m currently on a inner quest to gain greater understanding of myself so that I can spread my wings and heal the world. I’m learning more about astrology, meditation, and the spirit realm. Even seeking guidance from my known and unknown deceased ancestors for guidance. My family thinks I’m crazy, although they accept my unique antics because I’ve always been considered “the weird one”. Although I’m eternally grateful for their acceptance… It feels good to read a post that feels more like understanding than mere acceptance. I love to talk in the business world, but I’m a total recluse in my personal life. It is my goal to challenge many of the traits that bring about the lengthy bouts of seclusion. So in an effort to do so, I’m reaching out to you in hopes that the Scorpion/Sagittariun/ Capricornian energies might align and manifest into clarity… Or at least a familiar platform to relay all these messages we both probably have bottled up within. Lol
Hi Hiroki
I have a 12th house stellium with intercepted aries. Born on the morning of an eclipse with a comet in the sky. within my intercepted aries are the sun mercury mars and south node. saturn is in the 12th just outside of aries. in my 6th house i have chiron moon and north node. jupiter in 9th and venus in 1st house. i have been depressed for the last one year and anxious. Right now I am doing a year of service. Hoping to work my way out of depression
Hello, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house stellium. Service sounds like a great way to transform your consciousness and come out of the depression. Good for you!
It is a great article, which I came across after a long time. Thank you.
I have Neptune, Sun, Mercury, and Mars in the 12th house Scorpio. Not able to interpret this combination. As mentioned so much imagination where it is not required and lack of self confidence most of the times. What is going on is always kind of puzzle, though knows exactly what needs to be done, but afraid of authoritative figures which is not making the career at all a happy place..:(
Hi there, 12th house stellium in Scorpio may suggest that you’re learning how to express these deep, intense energies in constructive ways. For a full analysis, please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Hello,
My solar return has Jupiter in th 12 house (sag 23°). My Natal Jupiter would be in the 1st house (Capricorn 10°). I will have a Capricorn Asc 1° (Natal 5th House near 6th house cusp 4°) Conjunct both my natal Neptune 1°and Capricorn 10° this year for my solar return. My SR looks good in general. I’m very happy with it.
My sun is in the 3rd house and moon in the seven with exact conjunction to my natal Asc 5° Leo.
I was really looking forward in launching my business this year. I had a SR in the 6th with a moon in the 5H (4° apart conjunction between my the 5H/6H) , just prior to a new moon 5H 🌙 /6H ☀️ so I worked really hard on my daily routines, health and family matters. Also, my creative endeavors dear to my heart.
I am a highly spiritual person whom likes to service others — sometimes for Free when I should charge 😂 but I am just like that. I am comfortable with Jupiter in the 12th. But wondering if that will actually affect my plans in launching.
Should I travel to move Jupiter to my SR ASC? That will make my moon go in to the 8th.
Thans,
Krys
Hi Krys, I personally base my analysis on natal chart instead of solar returns, so cannot comment on this.
For your research, Keanu Reeves has a virgo stellium in 12th opposing Saturn in 6th house. Sun, Mercury(ASC ruler), Uranus, Pluto (and Pluto makes an 1 degree conjunction on Asc.)
I also have the exact same stellium in Virgo opposing Saturn in 6th just like him. Except there’s no asc contact.
I have had a lot of trauma in my life (same as him). Father issue. Dyslexic. But I grew up to be a writer. Both novels and non-fiction. Most of them are about Sci-Fan or deep psychological issues.
Hi Jojo,
Interesting to hear about Keanu Reeves (looks like the birth time is a rectified one in astro.com, but it’s quite possible some of his Virgo planets fall in 12th house.) Thank you for sharing your 12th house experience as well.
Hello Hiroki,
I really appreciate how this article helps readers understand that we can actually benefit from 12th house planets. I have my Mercury in Aries in the 12th and my Jupiter in Pisces in the 12th. I was socially considered a gifted writer at a young age and even had a few things I’ve said published or recognized, once in a local paper and once in some academic journal somewhere. Yet, I still was misunderstood with the simplest things I have spoken, especially when it came to my family. My Jupiter in the 12th house has been something of a miracle in my life. Here I go again, wanting to turn back on my post (unconscious 12th Mercury) but this message is for you. Have a blessed night.
Hi Meg, thank you for sharing your experience with Mercury and Jupiter in 12th house! Sounds like writing can be a good creative outlet for you.
Hi Mr. Niizato.
In my Placidus astro chart, I only have one planet in the 12th house (Virgo), which is Saturn. But in Equal House chart Jupiter and Mars are also there, and in conjunction (in Placidus, they are in the 11th house, also in conjunction, and already in Virgo, not Leo). Which house system should I choose?
Hi Rick, what house system to use is up to each astrologer – I use Placidus, as my training and experiences are based on that particular “lens”. In order to gain analytical skills, typically an astrologer needs to stick to one system and accumulate experience using that particular tool with thousands of charts, which eventually aids intuition.
I have both 1st House and 12th House in Pluto. I agree that I feel I’ve escaped a narrow destiny through major transformations. It’s not easy but Scorpionic archetype guides me through scorpion, eagle, and phoenix. Thank you!
I have the sun, (Scorpio) Mercury an Neptune all in the 12th house … interesting communication has been an area of focus for most of my life … much learned behaviour – creating/expressing structure, clarity and transparency. The last few years, (I’m 50 now) my confidence levels have increased and communication flows more freely …. and I expect this will continue over the next few years
Hi Michael, thank you for sharing your experience with the Mercury and Neptune in 12th house. Yes, once mastered, 12th house planets can become a defining strength in your personality.
Hi, I have the sun, venus, mars, saturn and mercury in the twelfth house. It’s not easy. I am very sensitive, have to withdraw from people often, because their energies effect me a lot. Still waiting to start living my life the fullest, while life is passing by me. I guess I have some talents, but have a hard time to fulfill them.
Hi Katrina, thank you for sharing your experience with having 5 planets in the 12th house. Hope you find a creative outlet for your special sensitivity.
Thank you Hiroki, I have Mars in Cap in the 12th natally and it is rough! (esp during the Mars retrograde). I have been doing Reiki for some relief but right now at this present moment, I have Pluto and Saturn transiting my 12th house!
Hi Joe, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house Mars. Ideally, the coming transits can uncover the hidden source of stress (Mars, so typically it’s an old anger that you weren’t allowed to express.)
Hi Hiroki, I have a stellium in the 12th -Moon and Sun in Virgo conjunct Venus, Pluto, Mercury.I m an artist /writer,sensitive, emotional with intense transformative experiences especially in love. I resonate with the parental influence you describe in the 12th house, but also perceive the 12th house to be like Pisces? An idealizing/romanticizing Venus in the 12th makes sense to me. I identify with the Neptunian qualities of the 12th rather than with my Virgo stellium. Any feedback welcome, thank you.
Hi there, thank you for sharing your 12th house stellium experience! Artists tend to get a lot of inspiration from their own or the collective unconscious (12th house), so this is the strength you draw from the inner orientation suggested by the 12th house emphasis.
hello
sun/venus/mercury gemini 12th house
moon taurus 12th house
I feel like I’m in a blurry fog of myths most of the time. Sunlight usually confuses me, but I find the more I work through my *self*undoing* tendencies in the safety of *therapy* I find myself letting in the light more; waking up earlier to watch the sun rise;…yet I am infinitely a creature of the night, imagination. So much Gemini I feel I must run my mouth and explain this phenomena, and sometimes I can, with precision. But then I become silent, cannot speak, sink back into the 12th house Ocean of consciousness, empathetically soaking up millions of stories deep from ancient times and modern minds…and then I sing. I must get on stage, and perform, these myths that I feel that I hear…… then the sun comes up again and taxes are due and the phone is ringing! Haha! I’m dizzy. Ok. Stable yourself. Daydream on the way to the job.
In romance it’s confusion city and lots of unprocessed trauma comes up inside, which leads me to lash out at mySeLf in front of the partner, unprocessed anger, family ancestral blood beliefs and deep down traumas….so strong is my urge to disappear, to hurt myself…YET…it is essential for us 12th housers to APPROPRIATELY communicate BOUNDARIES yet I KNOW it is hard to know where the edge is. There-apy has helped me CONFRONT and BREATHE THROUGH my trauma, to re-remember that this body is Safe. Breathing has been my lifesaver and we can channel CALMNESS and AWARENESS (for my geminis too!!!!). Also, music. Next step: punk band Watch out 2018
Thank you for sharing your 12th house experience. Sounds Neptunian, too!
Dear Hiroki, I enjoy your approach and web site very much. I wonder if you have any insight into my yod with the apex being the moon in Aries in the 12th House (5 degrees), Neptune in Scorpio in the 7th House (6 degrees) and Pluto in Virgo in the 5th House (4 degrees). I’m a Sag Sun conjunct Saturn in the 9th House. (Insatiable curiosity!) Thank you very much!
Hi Tina, it seems to suggest an interest in (and sensitivity to) otherworldly matters, whether fictional, occult or spiritual. For a detailed analysis of your horoscope, please consider scheduling a private consultation, thanks.
My husband has neptune, mercury and mars in the 12th house. He can’t comprehend why never talking about or even noticing our relationship could an issue. I feel like leaving. All the time. He lives to work, and works to live. Only problem is that his two daughters and wife have never heard him discuss his feelings about, well, anything about him.
He has venus in virgo in the 10th.
Naturally this has not been good for our relationship. However, he is faithful and works hard and I can tell he thinks he’s a great husband even though I feel like the like a nag or an invisible roommate.
I’m venus pisces in the 6th. 0 degree Mars in Cancer in the 9th. I’m Sun Aquarius, he is sun Libra – we both have moon in Leo. But his sun is in 10th. Mine in the 4th house.
Can you discuss?
It sounds like self expression and sharing is difficult for him. His horoscope’s 12th house emphasis could be reflecting that. For serious discussions about relationships, please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Hi Hiroki,
Finally I found an apt article that digs deep into the twelfth house realm and have cherished reading it.
I have 4 planets in 12th house – Sun, Moon, Venus, North Node.
And have 5 planets in 11th house – Mars, Mercury, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus.
With two stelliums in my birthchart, life has been very unpredictable.
As per this article, I have fallen prey to my own self-limiting patterns (sort of self undoing), wherein I feel and I know that no one knows the ‘real me’. Still unaware of my talents, although I know that I love expressing myself via writing.
Hope meditation & spirituality helps.
Hi Niki, thank you for sharing your experience – that is quite a concentration you have in that sector of your horoscope! I think relationships with others help to establish some perspective, as it’s very easy for the mind to be hyper focused on one or two areas when you have this much concentration of psychic energy.
Hi Hiroki,
Thanks so much for all of your insight in this article – this was all super helpful!
I recently found out I have a 12th house stellium composed by my sun, moon, mercury, and mars, which are all in taurus.
The more I have read about having planets in the 12th house, the more sense things have started to make. I haven’t yet been able to find anything that discusses the influence of the 12th house when 4 personal planets are in it. I was wondering if you might have any advice or insight?
I’d love to schedule a private consultation!
Thanks so much in advance! :)
Best,
Kristen
Hi Kristen, much of the 12th house journey is about ‘looking within’ to find previously hidden meanings and answers. A 12th house stellium certainly seems to emphasize explorations in that direction. For a full discussion please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Great insight on this article! My wife has aquarius Sun, Mercury, Mars, South Node and aqua 12 house. 3 personal planets! Any insight on the Aqua influence? She has never had a reading but I want to gift her one.
Hi Khari, Aquarian influence in the 12th house suggests the need for individuation.
Hi Hiroki,
Thank you for your deep insights, I feel grateful to have found this page
My Venus & Mars (in Cancer) are conjunct in the 12th house (cusp Gemini), and Mars is conjunct the Ascendant Cancer. My Leo Sun is in the 1st house ascendant. I feel this is a very very strong polarity, a complex dynamic that I would greatly value astrological insight on.
Love&Light,
J
Hi Jade, for a serious discussion, please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Hi Hiroki! Thank you for this article! I recently pulled my 6-month-old daughter’s chart and was surprised to find her sun, moon, Venus, and Jupiter in her 12th house (Scorpio.) She’s a rising Capricorn. That, and Chiron in her 4th house, has made me fearful for this happy little baby! She seems to be so much like me – very sensitive, very empathetic. I hope she does not have a life full of struggle ahead of her.
Hi Brittany, I empathize with your concern for your baby. As a mother, what you could do is to encourage the development of creative expressions in your daughter, so that she learns to tune in to her internal resources and intuition. 12th house mostly deals with what is on the inside, so it’s best she finds a positive way to connect with her inner talent.
Hi Hiroki,
I have sun, mercury, Venus,south node in the twelve house.
My father was not absent in my life. My moon and Mars in 4th. Uranus in 7 th, pluto in 6th, saturn in 5 th, Jupiter in 2nd. And I am Taurus asc. Currently Uranus passing my 12 th house. These last 2-3 years are really difficult. I have the feeling I am changing inside completely. And love is a challenge for me. Any advice? Thanks
Hi Miri, for a serious discussion, please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Hi Hiroki, I just found your site and I too love your 12th House explanations. I would like to know what it means if I have 7 x 12th House placements? (Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Varuna & Waltermath all in Taurus and Aries in 12th House and Sedna in Aries in 12th) I struggle to keep friends and I dont know why? I am kind and caring. I am an Artist and Graphic Designer so I am trying to make something of my life using my art. I have been very depressed for about 7 years now. Would love any input?
Hi Terry, depression is a pattern of thoughts, so it relates to what’s discussed here. The 12th house focus suggests there is something for you to confront within in order to change this pattern.
Hello,
I struggle with a 12th house Venus which is also square to my Neptune in the 3rd house. Fantasies and delusions plague me (especially regarding love and relationships). I really appreciate this article. However, I can’t seem to find anything that points to HOW to deal with 12th house things or even natal squares. I just keep reading “if you are willing to do the work”, but how do you change something so innate within you? How do you change your beliefs about love and relationships that inform all aspects of your life? You state that a 12th house Venus “might point to limiting beliefs about relationships. Perhaps the role model at home was so poor that you had no choice but to construct an image of ideal relationships from work of fiction.” which for me is absolutely true. I thought for a bit that maybe writing is the answer because I can put these fantasies towards something, but then I just feel like all I am doing is going further and further into my fantasy world and that this cannot possibly be healthy-as I thought I am meant to be finding a way to get stuck into life and the real world authentically. Also, what am I writing about if I have no true romantic experience and everything I think I know about these things is wrong? Nothing I write will have a spark of authenticity and who will relate to it? I am just so confused.
Hi Tiffany, the challenge with 12th house Venus is that sharing your romantic fantasy and feelings become almost a secret, private affair, once-removed from direct expression with another human being (think about the once-removed nature of social media and internet sharing that is so prevalent today – everyone sharing from behind the computer screen, hidden and isolated). One productive effort may be to find a space to share your honest feelings with other person/people face to face, in a nonjudgmental environment.
Thank you so much Hiroki for your answer. That is what I though. My 4th house Mars is squared my eight house Sun and seventh house mercury… so I guess there is my motivation :)
I have both mercury and saturn in this house. I find it very difficult to communicate, especially when I was a kid. And I read somewhere, 12th house saturn is selfless, people with this placement often feel lonely. Basically, nothing good with saturn in 12th house they said. But, I kind of don’t believe it. Well, the selflessness is rare in this world. That alone is amazing.
Hello Hiroki, very informative website. I have a question though: why aren’t you interpreting any of the easy aspects? I have Pluto in Virgo conjunct my ascendant in twelve house (with wheel of fortune there too), trine Saturn in Taurus in 8th house trine Mars in capricorn in 4th house. An earth grand-trine. Uranus also is conjunct my ascendant in first house. The sun conjunct mercury in 8th house square mars in 4th and sextile midheaven, quincuxed Jupiter conjunct Neptune in third house Sagitarious. Venus in Aries sixth house trine both jupiter and neptune in third. Uranus, Pluto, Neptune, Mercury, Jupiter and the north node (in fifh house) are all retrograde. I have had a tough life with many ups and downs, family secrets and drama, deaths, very ill older child, etc… Yet, it seems that at the last moment, I have always experienced great good luck. Things just fall into my lap and I have great optimism and faith that no matter what, I am going to be ok. As if my guardian angel really were real and at work, as if I was born with good karma yet great challenges… Very disciplined since an early child. But Pluto conjunct my ascendant in twelve house has caused me great sorrow as well since its always all or nothing for me and I have burnt some bridges I regretted. My Libra ascendant helped somehow, but now my progressed ascendant is in Scorpio and, Pluto being the ruler of Scorpio, I am a little afraid Pluto may cause more havoc. I am 46 years old and Pluto is currently conjunct my fourth house Mars, and trine my natal Saturn and natal Pluto…. Any insights as to what Pluto may bring? Thank you so much!!
Hi Marta, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Regarding your question, trines and sextiles, as harmonious aspects, tend to remain passive unless you have a strong motivation to utilize their potential (such motivation may come from elsewhere in their horoscope). The innate potential is the same for all aspects, but hard aspects tend to be the most expressive because of the greater tension (i.e. necessity and motivation) involved.
Hi there, thank you very much for this article, it is straight to the point.
With my Aries Sun (10″5) and Mercury (2″2) in 12th I’m always between shouting out and hiding in, still searching for the proper way of canalizing that energy (with Jupiter in 5th it doesn’t seem like a problem, but actually it is when you can’t decide whether paint, sing, act, write or make babies, and at the same time being afraid of it all).
My story with hidden Sun is father who was rarely at home because of work (at the age of two I asked my mom who is that guy when he came back) and was emotionally incompetent too. My older sister same Aries Sun in 12th.
My self-conciousness developed really late (e.g. I was upset when they told me that I’m impulsive – at the age of 16!)
And one transit story for the end: Uranus crossed my Mercury and Sun at the age of 23 and therefore made me destroy my 6-years lasting intimate/professional relationship, my band, our common friendships, turned me to myself and self-exploration and now i’m finally finishing my prolonged puberty as Uranus is going out from Aries. Finally.
Wonder what will Neptune do with my 12th house :)
Thank you once more, is it possible to join courses?
Hello Theresa, thank you for sharing your experience! Well said. I do not offer courses currently, but hope to be able to provide it if it seems to be a strong demand.
Bonsoir,
Thank you for this article about the 12th house.
My Saturn and North node are both in this house, and both in Aries (yet, the cuspid of the 12th is in Pisces).
I don’t understand what it means and your anwser to Jolantar makes me wonder : “Was one of your parents exhibiting the negative quality of the Virgo archetype?” In my case, would it be the Aries archetype ?
Sun in Scorpio and Asc in Taurus.
Hi Sonia, it’s possible because of Saturn in Aries’ placement in the 12th – only you can say whether that would be valid for you. In general it’s easier to look at the entire horoscope when focusing on your parents’ impact on your development.
Hi
I’m glad I camr across this…. I have realized alot of self limiting issues with Saturn transiting my 12th in Sagitarrius. But I have a Cap stellium in the 12th…Was really hoping to just get out… I had enough with Saturn there. What should I expect with Saturn transiting the stellium?
Hi there, Saturn’s activation of a natal 12th house stellium may bring these issues to the fore.
It is hard to be brief when it come to the 12th house because of such a lot being unconscious but basically I have Sun in Scorpio 12th house, square to Pluto in Leo 9th. Half a lifetime of feeling self conscious, no confidence or importance etc etc. Until Pluto transited my 12th house, at which time (not knowing what I know now) I went to an assertiveness class, then I had several phases of counselling and as Pluto traveled deeper into my 12th/unconscious, I found hypnosis / self hypnosis (which had always been an interest) which changed my life and still does help on a daily basis. By the time Pluto reached my Asc I was a very different person and all that self defeating was over! I stopped smoking, lost weight. stood up for myself and achieved so many of my personal goals! So my hidden enemy is not myself since then but actually my sun is my hidden strength. When Mars transits my 12th I do however feel it works as traditional astrology suggests hidden anger (which I don’t feel i have?) and hidden enemies etc so now I have Mars conjunct my 12th house sun (and being a bit psychic) I do really feel I have a hidden enemy working against me from behind the scenes? this comes around with every Mar’s/ 2 year cycle and I feel it is someone close. I think my Mar’s cycle is tied up with some other persons cycle and I am the cause of their anger or animosity (???) which is directed at me secretly? where might I find the answer in my chart…? Help please xx thanks Maureen.
Hi Maureen, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house transformation – it’s quite insightful. Regarding your suspicion, you could be right especially if you tend to be an empath who picks up on the emotions of others who are close to you. Perhaps not necessarily that they’re angry at you (although it’s possible), but someone close to you may be feeling extremely frustrated about something and isn’t dealing with the emotions.
I have Neptune conjunct Jupiter in my twelfth house. What does this mean
That’s a spiritually oriented placement, so you may find spiritual studies rewarding.
Thank you for this grounded and uncomplicated view of the 12th house.! I’ve been dealing with the 12th my entire life (Aries Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus all there) but now feel the tremendous shaking of the tree with transiting Pluto squaring all of these late in my 9th house, while opposing my Mars ruler at the same time.
I have worked hard in my life pursuing my creative passion alone and now stand on the threshold of entering into a long term partnership / marriage! I have a feeling this relationship could be a catalyst for the healing that needs to take place yet I feel anxious and edgy about what I may or may not be able to contribute in a healthy way. I feel unsettled in ways I have never felt before.
Hi Tracy, thank you for sharing your experience! Marriage can be a great catalyst for healing – within its safe boundaries, unconscious feelings that were previously repressed can come up to be accepted and released.
I have sun and mars in 12 th house there is always something retaining me from completing my work and like prisoner of belief family teaching but on the other hand I have bad relationship with brothers even thou being over caring with them how to remediate
Hi Suraj, your phrase “prisoner of belief, family teaching” is likely the key here. If you can become aware of how much the belief system in your family is influencing your current life, you can start working on replacing it with a new belief system. This is a process that you do patiently, one thought at a time.
I hace Pluto in 12th. Self destructiv. And Hard to understand how to make it possitive in my life.
Hi,
Thank you for this post! It explains the self-undoing very clearly!
I myself have Mars in the 12th and in Scorpio and struggle a lot with self-assertiveness, self-confidence and owning anger. I think that because I also have Neptune in the 1st, this issues of self-esteem and self-knowing become even more pronounced. I mean I experience a lot of insecurities and doubts before making decisions, for example.
If you’ve got any thoughts, that’d be great!
Hi Petya, glad you enjoyed the article! The 2 measurements – Mars in 12th house and Neptune in 1st – echo each other to reflect the challenge with self-assertion and identity development (Mars-1st house issue). What you mentioned about ‘owning the anger’, and then accepting and releasing it, would free up a lot of energy for a new set of behaviors (therefore, a new identity) to develop later.
Hello I have sun mercury Mars venus and chiron in my 12th house taurus, my sun is sextile my moon in my 10th house Aquarius. I have uranus in the sixth house scorpio. Asc is gemini. As a child I always felt different or destined for great things was a talented artist but extreme fear of rejection. Able to make and maintain friendships easily, my mother had a terrible pregnancy and growing up I tried to keep a low profile at home. My parents loved me but had a volitile relationship we had times of abundance and scarcity I had wonderful memories and support from. My grandparents, a bright kid a member of mensa at 8 but was not properly encouraged as a teen. Throughout my career I believe I have always made an impact at any organisation I worked at mainly because of my ability to be friendly and approachable as well as willingness to to help unconditionally… but so much fog is around my true career patg. I want to love my work. Im 36 and graduated in 2012 with a business degree and currently work in marketing. I have a strong urge to achieve great wealth in order to ease people’s suffering..philanthropy is my true calling but I’m at a crossroads and need direction towards the career path that will lead me there. What business should I be in? Great post too, so much so that I am commenting as I prefer to observe rather than participate when it comes to deep personal information.
Hi Lucy, thank you for sharing your experience with your 12th house stellium. Regarding your question, please consider scheduling a private consultation to discuss serious issues.
Thats a very interesting article.
I have my moon in cap in 12th conjuct my mercury.
I hide my feelings for sure and express way better through writing.
I feel that expressing your emotions shows you are weak or smt like that.I know thats a wrong thought but i still repress them.Also i dont really know how i feel.
I have my Mars in cap 17 in 12th and my Asc is cap 19
I am not sure in which planets it belongs.
And speaking about anger , i may supress it and tell to myself that i am gonna harm the people to feel better, which of course i dont actually do.
Or i change the situation and see where they come from and why i shouldnt be angry , when thats an even worst approach.
What do you suggest i can do to unblock this energies?
Hi Sonia, thank you for sharing your experience with Moon, Mercury and Mars in the 12th house. Mars being within 2 degrees of the Ascendant could be considered as going into the 1st house, although the symbolism of hidden anger could still apply.
To unblock the energy, the first step is to become aware of the current thought/behavior patterns that keeps things in. Afterwards you’ll be able to step back and say “maybe I can choose a different way to look at this”. Sometimes this goes better with a support from a trusted coach or a therapist.
Hello, Hiroki.
I have one question regarding 12th house – i missed description about non-personal planets being in 12th house. What about Neptune and Uranus in 12th house?
Thanks
Hi Josh, Neptune is at home in 12th house, and could enhance the imagination or spiritual drive. Uranus in 12th house could suggest similar strengths when channelled constructively. This is one of the better ways to utilize the outer planets in 12th house.
Hi! Thanks for this article, it made me realize several things. I have Leo Sun and Jupiter in the 12th house. I wonder what does this mean? I am definitely an introverted and there are times where I have to deal with depression or I feel without energy.
Hi Daniela, Jupiter-Sun in 12th house may benefit from spiritual studies, as a way of reaching into unseen realms. This is outside of the topic of this article, but still within the 12th house symbolism.
Hi
I am having saggitarius lagna and having Jupiter Mercury and Mars in 12th house and I would like to tell you that what you told is just awesome.
But can pls tell how to overcome self undoing and self negligence ( in terms of the work that we know that it is must for us but we just procastinate it).
Thanks
Hi Devwrat, that’s the key question, isn’t it – how to change the pattern of self-undoing. Sometimes it takes hitting a rock bottom before you can start over. Other times, it’s finding a new inspiration in life that can show you the way. There are many paths to change your mind and its patterns – keep looking and you’ll find what works for you – hopefully sooner than later.
Hello,
I have mars, mercury and saturn in 12th house.
And moon in conjunction with North node in 5th house.
Aries ascendant.
I am struggling with shyness, social anxiety and depression.
I feel like i am not appreciated by anyone.
And my parents doesn’t accept me or appreciate me for who i am. I feel lonely and isolated.
And i feel so depressed at times.
And am struggling with lazyness also, indecisiveness and resistance to taking action.
Sometimes i feel like am stuck in life.
Please give your analysis on these placements..
Thanks in advance.
Hi Dilu, depression is often ‘anger directed at self.’ The way forward is to give yourself the gift of acceptance and forgiveness, so you can start over.
Hi Hiroki,
Nice to know this thread and which is still alive.
I’m a Virgo ascendant from India, and working as a research-scientist in US. In my 7th house Pisces, I have ‘Sun’ and in my 12th (Leo) house ‘Jupiter-Saturn-Mars-Rahu(the North-node)’ 4 planets. I came to know that because of exchange of houses (7-12) Sun-Jupiter will become powerful and this exchange is inimical. And, the message of 12th house is tough to decipher. Can you explain your ideas, suggestions and clues to understand this combination better ?.
Hi Rajavel, I would come at this a little bit differently in your case, and consider government related institutions as an important career factor. This is more of a vocational statement rather than what the article focuses on, but I feel it’s valid.
Hello!Well,i have sun,moon,mercury and venus(retrograde) placed in the 12th House.And above that a natal chart full of squares.One thing is for sure,it hasnt been easy!At all!I came across all the possible difficulties,problems,tragedies a person could face.And when i say all i mean absolutely everything that comes to mind.You name it i ve experienced it.Thats one part.The other is that from a very Young age,like 4 or 5 years old i knew i wanted to become a doctor.So i went to medical school after of course a lot of struggle and i am close to get my degree.I was feeling so strong about healing people and helping them to feel better that there wasnt any other way for me.The 12th House is hard and at the same time extraordinary.Thats what i think.And i would really love to hear your opinion!
Thank you in advance.
Hi Dimitra, thank you for sharing your experience! Working as a doctor to help others is a terrific way to express the 12th house energy. It’ll give you a deeper insight about life and its transient quality, which may evolve into a spiritual realization.
Hi Hiroki Niizato,
Nice article!
I have Sun, Mercury and Mars in the twelth house. I am Aries born(Sun Sign). I think a lot and thus could not draw conclusions on any topic. Is it because of this planetary situations.
Hello Che, over-analysis or over-intellectualizing is a form of defense, so yes, it could be that your trio of planets in the 12th house reflects the existence of this defense mechanism. Becoming aware of such defenses can help you to choose a different pattern through conscious effort.
Thanks Hiroki for the advice.
Are there any more conclusions which can be drawn out of that trio combination, which I am unaware of, and can prove helpful to me in future.
I am going to move soon and my relocated saturn in pisces will be in my 12th house. My saturn only have square and opposition aspect. So I am afraid of being isolated and depressed. I hope I can handle it.
Hi, I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on the relocated chart for this discussion – your natal chart is more relevant in this case.
I have Pluto in 12th. I´ve read it means having problems at home with parents, especially absent father, and this Pluto trines my moon in 4th. Even an easy aspect, I feel like it was a conjunction or square. I´m quite self destructive.
Hi Lou, Pluto in 12th house doesn’t directly suggest problems at home, but it could resonate with other measurements that do. 12th house Pluto in this case can reflect suppressed emotions that originate from early home life issues.
You,re completely right. I,ve been in therapy because of that. Feeling was not allowd at home.
Thank you for sharing that. Good therapy can a lot in this area.
Thank you for this insightful piece! I have Sun, Moon, and Venus in the 12th in Leo (Virgo Ascendant). The 12th house energy is debilitating – a sense of aloneness and suffering is a way of life. On the positive side, I have been driven to work with refugees and mental health because I intuitively understand how they feel and how they need to be cared for and loved. I hope all 12-house people will find their own personal joy in this life and never feel that they gave to change. Thanks again, every blessing to you.
Hi Tina, thank you for sharing your experience! Mental health field, as well as helping refugees, are good examples of positive 12th house expressions.
Hi
What can you say about Scorpio Pluto in 12th (chart ruler) square to 3rd house Aquarius mercury/sun/venus?
Thank you. I love your astrology articles.
Hi Starlover, Pluto in 12th square Sun-Mercury-Venus in 3rd may suggest strong idealism, perhaps best focused on helping others because of the Aquarian emphasis. Unless the idealism is managed well, it may lead to a feeling that the world doesn’t understand you.
My birth chart is weird. When I try to get a proper explanation of what it means and my own self sabotage etc, I am given a fluffy version of what it means.
Is there a reason my chart only covers half the zodiac?
Should I he worried? What kinds of things are affecting me?
Sorry for asking so many questions. I’d just like real answers.
Thankyou x
Hi Tammy, I’ve deleted your planetary positions, as this isn’t a place for a full reading. Your birth chart is not weird, and there isn’t anything to worry about – the patterns of your birth chart reflect tendencies and potentials, not any mystical influences upon your life. Please consider scheduling a private consultation if you’re interested in a real discussion regarding your horoscope.
I’ve been studying astrology trying to find answer and I think at the end those answers are related to my Venus in Pisces in 12= Self-sabotaging and underestimate my own strengths defines me very well. I want to do and I can do so many things but at the end, it’s like external forces hold me back all the time. I end it up doing nothing. I can’t helped.:( Ironically, I can detect efficiently other people problems but not mine.
Very good analysis!!! Thx
Hi Tara, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house Venus. Recognizing self-sabotage will allow you to find ways to change the patterns of thoughts or behavior – that’s the important part.
Blessings Hiroki,
I have Sun, Mercury (Retrograde), Jupiter, and Uranus in the 12th House, and all in the sign of Libra. Can you shed some light on the implications of such?
Hi IndigoRain, the suggestion is that there was a need to hide, protect or withdraw yourself from your surroundings. The reason for that varies, but most likely it is something you’ll recognize. This is just what comes to mind from your description, but a deeper discussion will need to be done within a private consultation.
Saturn, Pluto and Jupiter all snug in my 12th house, currently facing off one-by-one with Uranus in Aries. Over the past two years or so I have gone from being gregarious, outgoing, competitive, and adventurous – despite this packed 12th house- to spending almost all my time alone at home. When Saturn was opposed in 2015-2016, following the rather uneventful but devastating collapse of my business, it was a very heavy, depressive alone state, but now I’m just very happy and content (for the most part) with my solitude. The “psychic sponge” qualities of the 12th house, which I’ve always felt and had to manage very, very carefully, are out of control right now, and sometimes just riding the train can be debilitating…even if it’s quiet I just feel assaulted with energy. I can feel that I’m in a period of profound, life-altering transformation (tr Uranus oppose Pluto), even tho I have zero outward signs to prove it (which our social-media saturated, over-share 24/7 society demands, and which has always been a tough practice for me to fully engage with), and facing probing questions about what I’m doing from well-intentioned friends is arduous. I know I need to change my outward expression of those planets, and I just know that when I come out of this period my life is going to look nothing like it did going in. So intense to say the least, grateful that my Scorpio rising makes me a fan of intensity :) and grateful for your words of wisdom, as this is proving to be even a more challenging transit than Pluto conj moon six years ago. Final exact Uranus-pluto face off in jan ’18, then have to host Saturn on my cap moon. After this past decade there will be very little that can shake me!!
Hello Elizabeth, thank you for sharing your experience during this transformative period. Much appreciated!
Do you have any advice for someone who had their sun, mercury, Venus and mars all in the twelve house? My moon is even in the eleventh, I feel helpless. All I read are negative things. Anything positive to mention about the pairings?
Hi Alana, 12th house placement also suggests the importance of creative or spiritual pursuits for many people. It suggests finding enrichment in the hidden dimensions of life.
Hi! I have a Venus in 12th house and I’ve been really struggling with finding true love. Is there any way to break this? What should I do to become succesful in love?
Hi Jean, that’s a huge life question and the answer depends on your individual history and life choices. Please consider scheduling a private consultation if you wish to discuss it in depth.
Hey Hiroki, nice post!
In my case, it’s Mars in 12th house in a precise square to Moon in 3rd, that’s in Gemini and Virgo respectively. Repressed anger accumulated over the years, becoming self-destructing. After a certain point I think I’ve forgotten the “anger” part as it has become more internalized, morphing into depression. Also, Lilith opposite Mars (6th-12th) and therefore squaring Moon. Oh those last degrees of mutable signs, currently also aspected by Saturn… Any further insights? Thanks!
Hi Rena, “the internalized anger morphing into depression” captures the danger of this measurement. Releasing the anger will change the expression of this pattern into something more inspired.
Great information – thank you! I am just beginning to explore and have found that I have 4 planets, true node and Chiron all in my 12th house – do you have any other additional resources you could recommend?
Hi Alison, people with 12th house focus seem to find meditations and/or creative expressions to be meaningful.
Your article makes lot of sense to me… I have been facing all these kind of problem and tired of everything. I am Aries Ascendant and have Mars/Venus in 12th house…. lot of anger towards parents and life as whole.. too many self limiting pattern and no way out. Also spiritual practices like meditation seem not to be helping after a while… all leads to a trap I think. Thanks for this.
Hi Sidd, thank you for sharing your experience. Yes, meditation seems to come up often as a helpful practice for people with a 12th house focus.
Hello Hiroki,
Thank you for your excellent articles! I have Sun conjunct Venus in the 12th (Gemini), with both planets strongly opposing Neptune in the 6th (Sagittarius). I feel this is some kind of constant challenge for me, so at the risk of generalizing without reference to the rest of my chart, any thoughts on this?
Hi Matthew, the pattern suggests strong idealism, which is not easy to share with others in a direct manner. You may need creative vehicles to express it fully.
Good article! I am a cap sun, scorpio moon and cap ascendant, with Mercury in 12th house and Mercury in Capricorn. My experience with this placement is that I am afraid to voice out my opinion to different people and I am always imagining scenarios in my head, its very difficult for me to relax and have fun at social events cause I get rly scared of humilliation
Hi Larissa, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house Mercury. This placement suggests potential for intuitive thinking, but as you say, the mental radar can become too sensitive and manifest as worry instead of insight.
Thanks for the info, I am new to astrology, I have a Sagittarius 12th house stellium, Sun, Mercury, Mars and Venus, good family life, bad rrelationships all my life, now 55 and recently single again.
Hi Lisa, thank you for sharing your experience. If you observe a negative pattern within all of your relationships but don’t know why they occur, then it may be best to seek help from a coach or a therapist that may be able to give you an outside perspective.
This is really interesting, thank you for this insightful post. I have cancer north node and cancer moon conjoining in the 12th….my life seems to be about hermitting myself and FEELING my emotions, emotions that are embattled by pluto-saturn conjunction squares, mars square, and opposition from the sun. As a child I just felt paralysed and in incredible amounts of pain, not knowing what the heck was going on in my life, and in myself. I experienced constant internal sabotage and developed low self-worth that made me feel isolated. My life has been about dedicating myself to learning about vulnerability and the innocence of it, the power of it, and the destruction created when people suppress and ignore their emotions and don’t express their needs. About celebrating and liberating the inner child. My south node capricorn and capricorn sun has found it incredibly hard to allow this passage of pain and rebirth. I feel drawn to help others heal through communicating positive ways of relating with others, through words and creativity, like images. Thanks again.
Hi Katie, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house Moon and Node. Beautifully said!
i have uranus and neptune in the 12th with saturn 1 degree away from my ascendant in capricorn. how will i be able to use the subconscious patterns of my generation to influence the status quo
the 12th house being a spiritual/egoless house if you will, would their be any correlation between planets in the said and the placement of the sun and aspects to it? ive noticed when my ego, arrogance, boastfulness, or just self expression in general gets to a certain point at certain times(mercury combust sun, pluto opposition squaring the nodes ) aspects in my 12th house seem to manifest in reality. would planets in the 12th correlate to a stronger ego since the amount of compassion required to sustain the planets in the 12th house must be balanced?
Hi there, interesting thoughts…In the context of what you’ve written, I suggest thinking of 12th house placement as an invitation to explore & refine the egoless state through spirituality, creative expression or other means.
I have mercury, venus ,Saturn and Jupiter in 12th house in Scorpio.please describe its effect on my life.I am 36 years old.
Hi Nirmal, in addition to what’s discussed above, I’d consider this 12th house emphasis in terms of spiritual dimension – how important a role does it (spirituality) play in your life?
So, I have Sun and Mercury in Scorpio and my sun resides in the 12th house. I have a Capricorn moon with a Sagittarius rising and my mars is in Virgo. I understand that knowing this information will benefit me, if I chose for it to do so, but having found this out makes me feel very victimized which is what the 12th house suns are notorious for I know. I believe in some sense that ignorance is bliss because prior to reading this I developed a detailed mask that I was comfortable wearing. However, having gained this information it shattered that mask to pieces and weather or not that’s a good thing I haven’t quite figured out. I am a very disciplined person with goals and an obsession to achieve my dreams. Chasing this dream is done in private, I write constantly, plan constantly, and dream constantly. I have scheduled times throughout my day to imagine what my accomplished dream would feel like. In the pursuit of my dream, which is music, I have gotten in my way several times. My family, who was once a trusty alliance for myself, has now become somewhat of an enemy. Dad and I don’t talk anymore, and I’m considering moving to Paris next month, I’ve lived there once before. The 12th house rules hospitals, mental institutions, and prison. This information is what pierces my heart. I’ve had problems in the past that have lead me to those places, but after having gone through that, my biggest fear is going back which is why I live a clean and disciplined life. Are those place an inevitability that will reappear like landmines throughout the entirety of my life or can I make the monasteries my permanent residence instead? And what forms do monasteries come in even? Chasing my dream, I figured becoming a different person would serve me best, so I changed nearly every part of myself including behaviors, appearance, habits, relationships, attitude, and the way I chose to speak. Granted, at times I honestly had a feeling that my mind was gone, but I validated it to the delusional quality that successful people describe as a necessity for achievement. However, schizophrenia has always been a fear of mine since my grandmother has it, and now knowing that my ego resides in the house of mental illnesses it does make me a little worried. I want to know your take, on my planets and their placings. I’m less worried about mental illness. I’m more worried about not achieving my dream, I believe in it, in me, and in the process. But, at times, I make the process more difficult than it has to be and I’ve gotten so well and pretending to be another person that I forget who I am. My dominant planets are Scorpio, Capricorn and Libra.
Hi Morgan, the 12th house symbolism does not mean you’re destined to end up in any of the institutions you mentioned. Nor does it suggest mental illness.
In a sense, 12th house can be viewed as a doorway to your unconscious, intuitive realm. Thus many artists and musicians have strong 12th house emphasis.
I’m not sure whether you actually want to do music or want to be famous doing music – Either way, please consider scheduling a private consultation if you’d like to discuss it more fully.
What is my guardian angel in the 12th house w/ libra? Does this make sense. I am scorpio.
Hi Susan, it doesn’t make sense in terms of the astrology I practice, but perhaps there are spiritual astrologers that think in that vein…
I have 6 planets currently traveling through my 12th house great for doing research. I am wanting to spend more time alone, just don’t want to be with other people unless i have to. I feel as though my life is being suspended, as though i can’t move forward yet, and it is v frustrating time, things will change and improve i just have to be v patient and wait. A good time for planning ahead, meditation, stillness, and getting in touch with all the murky stuff of the 12th, yes it does show itself in all it’s unpleasantness and also it’s glories, and there is no getting away from it so i am just sitting it out until it’s time to move on
Hi Liz, thank you for sharing your experience with 12th house transits. Everything you say makes sense…This period is an opportunity for enrichment through being in touch with your inner self.
Thanks for the information. I have sun, mercury, Venus and Mars in 12th house Scorpio. Mercury is combust. South node in the ASC.
Hi Sajan, how are you experiencing these 12th house emphasis in your horoscope?
Capricorn rules my 12th house. I have Sun, Venus, Neptune, Saturn, and North Node in Capricorn in my 12th house. I have a retrograde Chiron in the 6th house with my South Node (Cancer) and an Aquarius Ascendant. I am extremely spiritual and am blessed to have been introduced to yoga and meditation at a young age. If not for that I would have lost my mind many moons ago.
This 12th house stellium is throwing me for a loop, though. I feel I am going down, down, down a rabbit hole. I have always felt like a very old soul and feel connections to past lives. I feel compelled to do something spiritual with my life and help people, but fear holds me back.
What do you make of this placement, Hiroki? Is meditation my best friend? Any insights are more appreciated than you know. Thank you!!
Hi nestamook, thank you for sharing your experience with the 12th house stellium. Yes, meditation would be quite beneficial to recognize and sort out the unconscious patterns. Any other possible expressions would have to be considered by looking at the whole horoscope.
Hi hiroki , i admire your insightful thoughts about the 12th house , espicially the part when u fail on purpose sometimes , and i just dont know why iam doing this
So iam having a big stelluim of (sun -venus-mars-neptune-uranus ) in 12th house with aquarius ascendant and aquarius sun ,, whats ur thought to get the best out of this stellium , specialy i feel like i have alot of power and talents , and i just cant pit my hands on it , and venus is 3 degrees of the sun and 3 degrees of the ascendant .. waiting ur respons
Hi Mahmoud, the 12th house dynamic is unique to each person, so this is an area that’s best served by private consultation. The typical thoughts with Aquarius and 12th house would be helping others and contributing to the society somehow.
I have saturn conjunct venus in libra in 12th house….it really feels awkward and fearful to approach people for any work…a sense of rejection….
Hi Harsh, this is certainly something to be aware of. Afterward, the idea is to move beyond the limitation through practice.
I come here to read your insightful and cogent articles often. Thank you. Mars is transiting my 12 th and I can certainly testify to hard aspects bringing impossible to ignore circumstances and reality checks.
I’ve relocated ( to help family) and its been a lonely, grief stricken/dystopian nightmare. I’ve been refusing to change
things and feeling guilty,and out of balance more than I can say. In the last month, I lost several thousand dollars while shopping, car rolled out of driveway into neighbors yard due to my carelessness and tonite while in Safeway getting supplies for a serious storm someone smashed my window and stole my purse,phone and laptop (among other things) as well as planner bills and critically important notes. Lastly, I should prob mention all of this comes at biggest crisis of my life (and narcissistic/elderly mother’s as well. Its a powerful incentive!!!!!
ready to change in the PNW
p.s. I never write or reply to anything online as a rule, and now esp. as I am in crisis mode 24/7 and caring for my mom, but as I read various replies one captured my attention and I saw that the author was MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! synchronicity
im sorry for the length of this but I really needed to share.
Hi Kari, thank you for sharing your experience…Sorry to hear about the string of difficult situations.
hi!
I have all planets in the 12 house, except Mars. And my partner has them except moon and mars.
this period is a very tough one for both of us. Nothing of what used to work does not work anymore.
I constantly say: something’s gotta change. we got to face the mirror and change the way we do things.
please, tell me how this double house 12 full of planets may affect?
thank you
Hi Oana, it really depends on how you’re utilizing the 12th house energies. For example if both of you’re strongly spiritual or artistic, maybe this emphasis will continue to deepen. If both of you share a problem that is hidden (e.g. in unconscious), maybe a strong transit will signal a time to deal with it. To further discuss things taking into account your entire chart, please consider scheduling a a private appointment.
How does this apply to those with no planets in the 12th (mine being in Taurus)? Is it still possible to somehow utilize some of this to uncover self-limiting patterns and heal them? I have a 1st house Chiron, Saturn in the 7th, the Moon in the fourth and a Sun in the 9th. For some reason I feel that the 12th is a missing piece of the puzzle in my healing journey but I’m not sure how to begin unraveling it myself.
Hi Atalanta, similar patterns can certainly come up without having any planet in the 12th house. There are quite a few ways for this to happen (basically, we’re looking for potentials for suppression.)
Also, sometimes the ruler of 12th house can have a similar feel to a planet being in 12th house. Please consider scheduling a private consultation if you’d like me to take a look at your horoscope in more depth.
Hi Hiroki…your article about 12th house is very useful as am having the stellium of mars,Venus,mercury and sun in Capricorn ascendant. But I want to know that what will happen when mars, Venus and mercury gets combusted by sun???
Hello Ani, “combust” is an old concept from horary astrology and doesn’t necessarily have the same ominous implication in modern astrology. In terms of psychology, the closeness of Venus or Mercury to the Sun often suggests a strong tendency for idealism that colors your thought, speech and relationship patterns.
Thank you Hiroki for this! I have Virgo Moon in my 12th house and I have power struggles in relations because I’m too people pleasing when deep down, I just want to say no. Also, with authority, I choke when I try talking passive aggressively. I’m very aware of this now and slowly trying to regain my power. I think my Libra Asc also plays a role in this.
I also have Jupiter Libra in my 12th house, can you possibly tell me a little more about it?
Thank you for your work, you and your work are highly appreciated!
Hi Polly, thank you for sharing your experience. Jupiter in 12th is traditionally considered a good placement, probably because of the expansive spiritual dimension it implies. Regarding the patterns you mentioned, awareness certainly helps in creating distance from the issue.
Hi Hiroki,
I was literally shocked reading your very well written analysis regarding the 12th house and the effect it can have within the specific planets.
I have ALL Personal planets in the 12th house (Sun,moon, mercury,acsendant all in Gemini mars & venus both in Taurus)
I have very responsible Parents who were in their early twenties, when they had Me! Always making Sure, I received the best education possible. Never financial issues. However, my Dad was very strict, making me do nothing else but follow his orders (army-brat) not daring to question anything. No emotions whatsoever! My goal was to make him proud, not knowing, if I ever actually did… my Mom wasn’t able to protect me, eventhough very loving. Never understood what my soul actually needed. Education and independancy in order to succeed in society was her only focus for me. It felt/feels like my innerself has been malnourished all my life, since money and success aren’t the real satisfying goals in life! Like being on stage, trying to explain all I “see” & “feel” which is so much… but my audience is deaf!! The anger which I kept inside throughout so many situations just suddenly explodes & I am just being considered as totally aggressive! A game I cannot win…..it’s devastating! I hope other 12th housers can relate & see that they’re not alone, ’cause giving up is not an Option! And I did finish something btw –> law-school :-) (but I hated it…) So…what do you Think? I do kinda fit in your description at least with my natal Chart! ;-) BR from Germany!
Hi Sharon, thank you for sharing your experience. There is a lot of insight in what you wrote, especially the feeling of being on stage but to a deaf audience. Being invisible – not being “seen” and “heard” for what you really feel inside – could be a common 12th house experience. In turn, you’ll need someone that can act as a positive mirror (someone to see and hear you) so that you begin to know yourself.
Hello Hiroki, great insight for 12th house, thank you! I have Sun and Mercury in Aquarius, venus in 10 (pisce), moon in 12th (0degrees in gemini), asc in cancer 5degrees. What can you say about uranus perfect opossition with moon in 12th? Venus is in oposition with mars & jupiter (conjunct in virgo, 4th), and saturn & lilith 24degrees in virgo. Thank you!
Hi Alex,
Uranus in contact with Moon in 12th house can intensify the Moon’s needs. It’s possible there could be an altruistic (helping others) way to express the needs of the Moon.
You’ve listed several planetary placements – to synthesize these, it’s best if I look at your entire chart and not just the ones that you’ve mentioned. For that, please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Uranus Capricorn 0′
Saturn Capricorn 2′
Rising Capricorn 8′
Neptune 10′ Capricorn
Mars 10′ Capricorn
My Sun Pisces 27′
Moon Aries 0′
I have noticed I have a hard time. I feel like I flip flop in life. Very indecisive. I know growing up I had a very strict father. I always felt that I needed to be the best and I was afraid of any type of failure. With both my Saturn and Uranus hidden behind my ASC I see that my creativity was hindered. I blocked out a lot of creativity as I got older. A lot of my frustrations in life have been because I have had such a hard life, and I have been using this energy of this combination in negative ways that ultimately caused my marriage to failed. It’s allowed me to open my eyes and get down to the bottom of my issues. I just want to know, would my Saturn and Uranus act as if in the 12th house with this placement? Saturn is also transiting in my 12th house which is digging into WHY I have been acting the way I have. When I see it in black in white, I have finally understood reality.
Hi Kristina, your Saturn and Uranus are in the 12th house for sure (6 degrees away from Ascendant is not close enough to consider being in the 1st house).
Hi Hiroki, my partner’s mars and mercury is in Leo and in the 12th house , i think it is a very difficult mix – what do you think about?
Hi Eva, Mars in 12th house can suggest hidden anger. Mercury in 12th house might make it more challenging to communicate it. The key might be in trying to understand what the emotions are about so that they don’t stagnate inside him.
I’ve got Mars and Venus within 7 degrees of each other in Pisces (my rising sign) and in the 12th house. I am Sun sign Aquarius in 11th house, so the Sun isn’t far off. I also have Uranus squaring Venus and Mars.
I just want to say, I feel exactly equally blessed and cursed for this sign. If I can get more in touch with the inner-world benefits I should have easily, I will love this aspect of my chart (especially with a very difficult Saturn conjunct Moon in Scorpio right at the beginning of the 8th house, barfff!!). But living with totally unmet material world needs and an exagerrated imagination (Neptune and Uranus in a Midheaven Sagittarius and South Node Capricorn sort of confusing the shit out of me), I regard my Pisces-ruled personality with some extreme self-mistrust and resentment. Sort of like, it’s a treasure that I’ll never really get to enjoy in this lifetime, so I am extremely prone to depression and withdrawal. Aquarian coldness to the T….
Back to the point on Mars and Venus conjunct Pisces 12th house; love life seems like it’s been good when I remember it, miraculously with a partner most of my adult life, but for some reason, it doesn’t feel like it and I maintain delusions that I’m actually cursed in this arena, which simultaneously drivesdrivesDRIVES my self-belief, and isn’t true. Definitely respond to disollusionment and disappointment with a fantasy-prone addictive nature, and find my escape in art of all kinds which my chart seems to greatly bolster despite this difficult time with Mars and Venus simultaneously. But I would trade all my hard-won artistic talent, turn my back on my creative gifts in a heartbeat, for a more externally functional placement of Mars and Venus. Not to mention the Uranus square, it seems like my chart is hellbent on making me face these issues! Luckily my Venus is trine Pluto and trine Moon so that might help ease the pressure, but just the fact that I seem to be tied totally hard to Pisces and 12th house makes even the boons I see in my chart hard to fully experience.
Unless I’m getting something artistic or spiritual out of my 12th House Venus/Mars conjunction in my rising sign of Pisces, I turn my sentiments against the whole damn thing in an absolute microsecond, feeling jaded cheated and imprisoned, for unclear but still intensely felt, reasons.
Hi Arrow, art does makes sense for some 12th house placement, but there can be other concerns at work that are making you feel “cursed” in relationships. As this will likely be a complex issue, please consider scheduling a private consultation if you’d like to discuss it in more depth.
I have sun, mercury, mars, in 12 house (libra). My saturn, uranus and neptune are all in capricorn (in house 3). When you mention transiting planets, do you think that since capricorn is square to libra, the upcoming saturn transit in capricorn (december 2017) will be especially…..difficult? Insight? Thank you
Hi Ann, Saturn going through Capricorn will square the 3 planets in Libra, for sure. One way to see these transits is as opportunities to see your hidden patterns more clearly, so that you can take a different path going forward.
Thank you very much! :)
Great blog you have in here ,
wishing all the best!
Hello!
I am lost trying to figure out what’s a North Node in capricorn but in 12th House about?
Thank you!
Hello there, North Node isn’t a planet so the interpretation differs from the ideas shared in this article. A spiritually oriented astrology would consider that placement to suggest a need for meditation and introspection, as well as connecting with unseen realm of existence or helping others that are suffering somehow.
i have venus and pluto in 12th house in scorpio.
i get a lot struggle with my love life.
i feel so hard to move on if the relationship end.
i feel hurt so deeply but i dont show it. once i show it…i just regret it. i dont like feel stupid i think because my moon in capricorn. so yeah..
with sag rising.. i am looking fine. but hurt inside.
pain will pass. and happy. and the pain again then happy that life lol
Hi Linda, Venus in 12th house can be challenging especially if you cannot accept your feelings to yourself. It might be a case of needing to accept the deep, difficult feelings within yourself.
Thank you for your insights. I appreciate your knowledge. I have 3 planets in the 12th house–Saturn/Mars conjunct with a 2 degree orb and they are also conjunct Neptune with a 8 and 6 degree orb respectively. I strongly feel the theme of self-undoing in my life of which you speak and also feel that I am a hidden enemy to my own self. I am trying to remedy this situation with meditation. I hope that is enough or at least a start that will make me aware of more things I can do to end this pattern of self undoing.
Hi Brenda, thank you for commenting. Meditation is a great way to increase self-awareness and find the hidden patterns operating within your life – awareness gives possibility for change, so it’s a positive practice.
Hello,
Your writing style is easy to understand.
I personally have Uranus (in sagistarius) in the 12th house conjunct ascendant (sagistarius conjunct Neptune). I often feel like I dont’t fit in or I don’t belong but I have no idea about other interpretations. Would you mind giving some opinion about the placement?
Hi Hong, If Uranus is within 2.5 degrees of Ascendant, you could consider it to be in 1st house. In either case, Uranus conjunction with Ascendant suggests a strong need for individuation, which means you’ll feel more at home with yourself and others once you find your unique path in life.
Thank you for the fast reply and advice.
thank you for the interesting info. i have venus(libra) in my 12th house natally. but what i really would like to know is what your thoughts are on relocated planets. i moved to a new location 2 years ago. my relocated chart shows my nice 11th house libra stellium now moved into the 12th. i have to say, these last 2 years have been some of the hardest of my entire life!! really painful–and very 12th house in so many ways. did i make a mistake moving here? the move did bring natal venus to the ascendant, but other than that, ugh.
there is one other part to the question: although i did move to this place which gave me these new planetary positions, during the same time i also went through the pluto square to my stellium, the uranus opposition, as well as a square from neptune to natal saturn (and just now to my moon.) could it be that the transits are more responsible for all of this than the relocation? just wondering, since on the one hand, maybe i should try to stay here and stick it out, as these transits are finishing soon. but on the other hand, if the relocated chart is at least as responsible, maybe i should consider moving. any thoughts?
Hi Natasha,
Your natal chart will continue to be valid regardless of your current location – 11th house planets will remain 11th house planets. So with regard to your question, it’s somewhat more correct to put the “responsibility” on the transit rather than the relocated chart (although it’s impossible to say without having the whole picture.)
i have my Moon in 12th house as well as Neptune, both in Sag. i def self sabatoge all the time and i feel like this is one of my life lessons. your article mentions people with the moon in the 12th have their souls hiding and u can reach ur soul by ways of dreams/dreaming and creative outlets which i resonate so much with!!! you also say if u have an outer planet in the 12th house which i do, u hit rock bottom and then u make changes which has happened to me so many times in this life. i wait till i hit rock bottom to make any changes. another life lesson i guess. thank u for writing this article, i loved it!
Hi Kelly, thank you for commenting and sharing your thoughts about your 12th house placement – glad you enjoyed the article!
I have my pars fortunae in the 12th. What would this mean?
Hello there, Part of Fortune is a severely outdated concept invented before midpoints – Despite it’s romantic sounding name, it’s just a way of relating 3 points in your horoscope. Modern astrologers use midpoints instead (which relates the 3 points in a much more elegant way.)
Now I’m 58yrs old.suddenly one day I just kicked them out from my mind.whom I was worshipping from my childhood. Those were my older sisters. I am Sagittarius ascendant with moon. .Saturn &north node in my 12th house. .I can recognise me through your 12th house astrology. Thanks to you. I love astrology very much.venus &Jupiter in my 10th house in virgo.can I learn astrology ?I have enough time now . Thanks a lot..
Hi Papiya, glad you recognized some of your own story through the article – astrology is a wonderful tool for self discovery, and the learning is open to all. Start with reading good books on basics…Donna Cunningham, Stephen Arroyo, Robert Hand, Liz Greene are all good teachers of modern astrology. Noel Tyl writes for higher level students, but his writing is one of the most practical application of astrology you can read. Enjoy!
I have sun mercury venus and jupiter in the 12th house. When i was little i knew there was something about me, sth not very nice but challenging. Everyone saw me strangely, my mum thought i had dyslexia, my teachers (until now) say that i don’t talk at all and it’s not healthy for me. I can go hours with out talking to anybody maybe even day but then i burst, i can’t accept loneliness no. It’s also hard for me to concentrate and i have low self esteem. I don’t know what 12th house is really about and what the hidden talents really are but i have to say my life has been really difficult, i don’t know if you get me, but I have no idea what I’m going to do like this, Truth is i always pray god to actually have a chance to have consider a wrong birth time, i will go check this when I’m 18 but i don’t think I’ve done wrong. It seems like everyone around me is having fun and being carefree and it’s like I’m not allowed to join them, i can’t, i really am jealous of everyone with another house stellium..
Hello J, checking the birth time is important especially if you have doubts about it. Know that 12th house planets do not cause the difficulty – they just reflect the actual real life issues you had growing up – so the thing to do is find out what issues your thinking pattern is causing, and discover what emotions lie underneath it…
Hi.. I have my pluto (28th degree) conjuct saturn (29th degree) in libra in 12th house with trine with my moon in the fourth house. What does it mean? And It is said that saturn 29th degree is very karmic, could you explain that please..
Hi Emel, although this is a bit different from the theme of this article, a placement like what you mentioned sometimes suggests a career that deals with the government or large business (12th house often represents the institution, and Saturn and Pluto both amplifies the symbolism.) 29th degree is sometimes called the critical degree, and is thought to pack a lot of punch – basically making Saturn extra powerful within your horoscope, which again goes back to the importance of your career. Would be curious to hear if this applies in your case..
Hi,
I have Mercury, Venus, the sun, Mars, Neptune, and Uranus in my 12th house…
I would love to meet with you and have you look into my natal chart.
How do I schedule a meeting with you?
Are you available to work through the phone?
Hello Lian,
Please see the consultation page for details on scheduling the meeting (either via phone or skype). Thanks!
This is a very good post.I have mars and taurus in the 12 house and it’ really hectic.When I was 12 years,an uncle and an aunty whom I grew with from year 1 to that age 12 planned to take me to my mum but didn’t inform me,my aunt made me believe that my uncle was travelling somewhere so I should follow him to buy me soap from a nearby town to bring back home that very day,then he will go on to where he is going.I didn’t know anywhere at that time so before I realise,I was in my mother’s house where I was going to stay without coming back home with the soap as my aunt told me.I was angry that they didn’t tell me what they were doing but could not show it because I thought I had wronged them which was not true though.I didn’t know what happenned.I was just crying for about 3 months till my mum sent me back to my aunt.Since then,I continued hidding my anger and my desires.I began telling lies to people that I wasn’t interested in intimacy and to my surprise,I started avoiding intimacy altogether.I became depressed and down as a result but thanks to astrology,am getting better by accepting that anger is not bad.
Thank you for sharing your story! This is a dramatic example of Mars in the 12th house…Great to hear how astrology helped you understand the dynamic of the hidden anger, which led to an acceptance of the suppressed emotion. Good for you!
Thank you for your style of writing and knowledge. The twelth house moon in Capricorn, along with the North Node in the twelth in Capricorn ( Saturn in sixth) and a Capricorn Ascendant. (Neptune is in my tenth along with Venus). Pluto transiting Capricorn now (pluto natal eight house conjunct sun in Libra). What can I do to help my self- undoing?
Most likely this period will be especially suited to psychological exploration and release of past trauma.
Hi.thanks for your post on 12th house,i have my mars in 12th house,and presetly having relationship crisis.wish i overcome the transit of Saturn -Tony,Nigeria
Mars in Leo in 12th opposite Moon in Aquarius 6th Any help on this 12th house?
Hi Hugo, probably the best outlet would be helping and serving others in your own special way.
Hello I want to know what it means for Sun in Pisces(12th house)to conjunct in a transgression to Ascendant in Aries(1st house)
Hi Zaa, Progressed or Solar Arc Sun crossing the Ascendant could suggest a major opportunity to be recognized. It’s a time where you can express yourself more fully. Going from Pisces to Aries also suggest similar transition.
Hi, I just found out that I have 3 planets in my 12th house (Sun, Mercury and Saturn). I don’t understand and what does it mean if I have an empty house in 3rd, 6th and 7th? Please help.
Hi Rosemarie,
Empty houses do not mean that you have nothing going on in those houses, so don’t worry too much about it. For planets in the 12th house, please request a session if you need more in-depth info in addition to what is covered in the article…It means different things for each person.
My Mars in my 12 th house (2-3 degrees from the top of this hose), in Virgo, is in square with Mercury and Venus in 3rd house. My Mars in is opposition to Vesta in Pisces and square to Node in Gemini. I do not understand how it act, and thus I will be grateful for any comments to this position.
Pluto and Uran are located very near my Mars but in 11 th house.
I’ll read more of your writings which are very interesting!
Hi Anna,
Aside from what’s already been discussed in this article, Mars in 12th house tied to 3rd house planets could suggest communication energies derived from unseen realms. This could be important for creative people that rely on inspiration to perform their tasks. There are other implications for this placement, but just know that there are multiple possibilities. Please schedule a consultation for a more complete assessment of your horoscope.
Greetings,
I am new to astrology and I am very confused with some of my placements. A lot of them point to success in career and success in love but it hasn’t been that way for me at all. I am 29 and really lost about what I want to do with my life. My Sun is 20° cancer in 6th house. Moon in Virgo in 8th house. Cancer in 7th with mercury. Saturn in 10th Sagittarius and mars (Capricorn) and Neptune (Pisces) both in my 12the house. And all my planets are retrograde except my Venus. (Moon and Sun not included) Help
I’m sorry my mars is Capricorn in my 12the house with my Neptune also in Capricorn 12the house
Hello kait, there are many possible reasons why your career may not be where you want it to be – these are questions you can ask in an individual consultation. If you’d like me to look at your horoscope in detail, please check out the consultation page first.
Hello,
I have Venus, Mars, and Jupiter stellium in 12th House (in Sagittarius); which all trine Moon in 8th House (Leo) and square Saturn in 3rd House (Pisces). I have tons of energy and positivity whenever I don’t feel restricted/burdened by responsibility. The Sagittarius-Leo energy is so strong.
I agree with how Venus in 12th House people don’t have a good role model, which push me to create ideal illusions (I do this ALL the time), especially about what kind of person I should be. With Mars in 12th House, I’m the worst when it comes to expressing my anger because I don’t know how to express it properly and constructively.
Now I have Transit Pluto in 1st House and Transit Saturn conjunct Pluto. The struggle is no joke, but I start to get the hang of it. I learn patience and start meeting then accepting my ugliest sides. I’m now experiencing small forms of ‘transforming’ to build inner strength.
I’ll visit your site again to read more of your writings. Thank you for sharing this.
Hi Pluto,
Thank you for commenting and sharing your experience regarding your Venus, Mars & Jupiter in the 12th house. With Saturn square these planets, the challenge may be to bring to reality the special visions you have, perhaps through some mode of communication and self expression.
I have a stellium with Uranus, Saturn, Neptune, and Mars in my 12th house (Capricorn). Also my Ascendant is in Capricorn. Pluto is in Capricorn at the moment and when I look back at my most recent past, it all makes sense why those years were intense for me. Pluto has been transforming aspects of my life that has to do with the twelfth house. At the moment Pluto is about to be conjunct, if it isn’t already, my Cappy Ascendant in 13 degrees.
Hi Oksana,
Pluto is about to finish the transit of your Capricorn Ascendant. This is indeed a significant change period!
Hi,
I have Jupiter in Gemini in XII.
I have lost faith in myself and other people a long time ago already.
My dreams, my whishes are nothing but a waste of time, money and effort.
It is not about being a perfectionist. It is worse. It is knowing that sooner or later, just before reaching any goal, any wish, a destructive force will destroy everything I have build and worked for. And this force is ME. It is as if you are opening a door leading to a corridor, hoping that your other Self is not standing behind the other door at the end of the corridor. But it is there, always. Waiting for you to arrive after having worked so hard and it tells you: Hi stupid. Back again?! What took you so long? This joke?
My family has a part in this sadic ‘play’ with no escape possible. They tell me that you should be or do this and that too, because it works for them and or they need you as some kind of support. And then after a while, you end up alone.
What can you say to me about Jupiter in Gemini in XII?.
Hello Elsa,
Jupiter in 12th house is traditionally thought of as a good placement (they called it “guardian angel” because Jupiter can connect to the unseen realms represented by the 12th house). Although you seem to be leaning toward a negative interpretation (like “suppressed faith”) due to your personal experience, which is certainly one possible outcome of this placement, probably the heavy feeling you describe isn’t due to this 12th house Jupiter placement. Rather, it’s most likely the case that rediscovering your lost faith (Jupiter in 12th house) would be the first step in your transformation.
What does it mean if you have Pluto conjunct Saturn in Libra, in the 12th house?
Hi Susannah,
It’s difficult to generalize by just taking Pluto conjunct Saturn in the 12th house, but I would explore it as possible suppression of traumatic experience.
Yes, and i’ve read that saturn in the 12th almost always points to some hidden abuse, and a real or sense of imprisonment (or feeling imprisoned, and the need to break free somehow). Every chart reading i’ve given where a stranger had 12th house saturn, the person was abused in childhood. Very sad and strange pattern. Conjunct pluto or mars would absolutely point to trauma, pain, deep loneliness, along with that saturnian isolation. Saturn 12th house folks tend to also find sleep extremely restorative, can sleep for 17 hours at a go.
It also depends on the kinds of people you tend to meet (e.g. if you’re in a recovery field, etc). There are other levels of expression of 12th house Saturn that has less to do with trauma, e.g. government positions etc.
Sorry my phone …. Lilith in virgo 12th house conjunct south node in leo and juppiter is going to transit in viego soon conjunct south node. Thank you
Thank you, i have foumd you post very interestimg. I have a question. I have virgo ac and leo 12th house and south node leo 29 degrees conjunct. Juppiter is goigle to connect my south node… What is giono to be … Am i giungere to lern about my past and about limitation? Thank you very much for your answer?
Hello Kaisha,
Jupiter transits are fast and fleeting most of the time, so you might need to consciously explore your consciousness in order to get anything out of it. Meditation and other related activities during this time period might help if you’re looking for this kind of insight.
Thank you for this interpretation. I came here to help a friend but then became interested for your take on my chart. Put simply and straight to the point. But now I have questions. Moon in Gem in the 12th. How to over come this undoing.
Hi Yasmin,
Thank you for commenting. There are many scenarios of suppression and self-undoing, and different ways to overcome it. It might help if you ask within how the needs of your Gemini Moon might be suppressed in your life, and reflect on the reason why. You’re also welcome to schedule an appointment if you’d like me to take a closer look at your natal chart for further discussion.
Hi,
This is the best description of the twelfth house I´ve ever red, And I have red a lot.
It was like a description of my life. I have the sun, moon, venus, saturn and mercury in the twelfth house. I am taurus with gemini ascendent.
My father left my mother 1 month before I was born, and he never really loved me. My mother was very depressed after her divorce. And she was alone with me and my two older brothers.
I have struggled all my life with low self esteem, shyness, feeling of loneliness, and not finishing any educations or projects I have started. I´ve always liked to paint, but it has never really been acknowledged in my family. And I never believed in myself. I was a daydreamer with a good imagination.
I´ve been unemployed for long periods. I am quite sensitive, and I love children and animals.
But now I m about to have enough of it. I wanna get out of this twelfth house that feels so restraining. Because I believe now that I deserve better.
Katrina
Hello Katrina,
Thank you for commenting and sharing your experience. Well said – go for it!
Katrina, hi, I so resonate with you. I too have a 12th house sun and venus both in Leo. Leo is rising as well. So I have alot of leo energy going on meaning, I should have aalot of courage. My father was there in the home but emotionally absent. I never could bring myself to tell him I loved him because I felt he never really loved me. This of course spills over into my venus 12th house issues. Never feeling good enough, thinking I would be rejected in love relationships but now like you, I want to be free of my own self undoing. Breaking away from the 12th house monsters and expressing the true qualities of being a Leo. Having courage to throw myself out there and not be afraid of rejection, my biggest fear. So your post helped me because I see I’m not alone. (12th house crap, lonliness) coming out of my self imposed prison of the 12th house and blaming God. Smh
hello
love the bill evans reference. my south node is in 12 in capricorn…any thoughts on reversing self undoing with this combo?
Hello Kari,
In Karmic astrology, Cancer North Node in the 6th house suggests needing to help others heal, so that may be a good outlet for channelling your 12th house energy.
I have my Sun (in Taurus) in the 12th. It wasn’t until I was much older and understood astrology better that I realized what that could possibly mean in terms of my own self-expression/creativity and any accompanying blocks. Oh wait, did I mention my Sun squares Uranus in Leo in the 3rd! So as you you can imagine, I’ve spent a lifetime expressing myself while still feeling self-conscious about it a lot of the time!
Sometimes the more staid, demure Taurus has won out and I backed down, hiding my light under a bushel but then there were times when my loud and proud Leo has shoved Taurus aside, roaring…”Whether you/it look(s) silly or not…DO IT!”
With age and wisdom, I have come to understand that sometimes I need to allow Taurus to step to the fore and keep me grounded and disciplined (even WITH my all my quirky creative self-expression) but then there are times when I’ve needed Leo’s courage to help me color outside the lines and toot my own horn!
Hello Michele,
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Hello, I have Saturn and North node in my 12th (Virgo), Sun – Cancer, Ascendant – Virgo. All I can say, although I see Virgo qualities in myself (idealization, perfectionism), yet I am sooo emotional, Im expert in feeling/expressing/overexagerating emotions (South node Pisces) and am lacking keeping attention to details, and keeping myself and schedule/job organized (I have Saturn square Mars). Not easy to deal with on daily errands :)
What can you say of North node Virgo placed in 12th? The placement in Pisces would be easy to interpret, yet I struggle with its interpretation in Virgo (12th house)… Consideing sign, the task is to learn to organize myself, paying attention to details/schedules, etc. But where you can do with placement in 12th ? Thanks.
Hi Jolanta,
You have Virgo Ascendant, which suggests that you need to think in terms of being exact, correct, and right, in order to feel strongly about yourself. All of the things you mentioned such as details, organization and schedules are manifestations of the mental acuity you need. Saturn in Virgo will assist this, no matter that it is in the 12th. You might want to ask yourself if there is a negative mental belief inside you about working and thinking in this Virgoan way, and if so, why? Was one of your parents exhibiting the negative quality of the Virgo archetype? I’d proceed like that….North Node not withstanding.
Hiroki
Hi Hiroki,
I have Jupiter in the 12th house, what does this mean? I also wrote to you enquiring about my unaspected sun.
Many thanks!
Hello, I have responded to your other comment elsewhere…..An entire chart needs to be taken into consideration before you can make an assessment.
Beautiful! Thank you.
This posting is one of the bests I read on the 12th house… Simple and to the point. Thanks for sharing! I do have a question, though. What does it mean when you have saturn in 12th house?
Hello Pablo,
Saturn in 12th could manifest as a certain type of work (large organization, institution, etc), so it’s not necessarily psychological.
What if your Taurus Venus in the 12th conjunct your Taurus Saturn in the 12th? … Any insight would be appreciated?
Hi Lori, I think it accentuates the 12th house Venus theme more, and the reason for emotional suppression needs to be explored…It might have implication for productive aesthetic talent, on the other hand.
My saturn is in my 12th house. Mercury is in gemini. & my moon is in cancer. I constantly have 1 foot in 1 foot out. In public im really engaged. Aloneness.. I need! Never trust opposite sex! And everyone dies. But thats part of life. So its confusing! & im born a virgo but definitely karmicly a Leo. What do u think?
Hi Mmegan, for a serious discussion based on your horoscope, please consider scheduling a private consultation.
Very usefull Information. Thank you.
I have a 12th house stellium in Scorpio. Sagittarius rising. My north node is in the 1st house, so when you said “Once you win the internal game of the 12th house by letting go of the limiting patterns from your past, you become free to utilize all of your skills and knowledge in the external world. This in turn helps you to create a winning, stronger, and more successful self-image, which becomes your new 1st house.”….. that makes a lot of sense! Do you think the new beginnings happen via transits of the planets, or by learning and conditioning oneself to new beliefs and ideas?
Hi Whitney, that’s a good question. I think the answer is both: Transits and solar arcs can signal new beginnings, and they may reflect real life changes and psychological growth (releasing old misconceptions and embracing new beliefs and ideas) taking place within you. Planets aren’t the cause – they merely reflect the potential of such internal transformation, if one is willing to do the necessary work.
Hi I have Neptune 22 Scorpio, Acsendant 0 Sagittarius, Mars 19 Scorpio, Mercury 25 Scorpio in the 12th house. Sun 3 is not in the stellium. When i was young i always felt like a happy person, yet i was often told (especially my mother) that i looked sad. However now that I’m an adult, i seem to excel and content with dwelling within the melon collie realm and I’m happy with this. Has my happiness in environment change due to my mothers perception?
Hi, I have a stellium in the 12th:
Uranus 24 Leo, Moon 28 Leo, North Node 29 Leo, Pluto 6 Virgo ASC 6 Virgo,
Mars 9 Virgo in 1st conjucts the ASC and 12th house planets
Any insights?
Hi Alex, 12th house stellium often requires a spiritual or creative outlet, in addition to what is discussed in the article.
Love this article…
I have Mars, Pluto, and Saturn all in my 12th house. What you wrote is incredibly accurate. I have a lot of hidden rage and have unfortunately, …apparently… sought out relationships where I can never feel I’m able to express not only my joys, but my anger. I’ve been easily controlled and felt I’m in a box I can’t seem to break free from.
I have had this strong inner desire of deeply wanting to make social changes in this world. I have always been the underdog, the black sheep, the used, the abused and constantly try to figure out how to use my tragedies for a better purpose. I feel I am an overly kind, understanding and giving person in a messed up take take take world. Whether it materializes externally to me, or internally in my mind to finally push forward, all I’ve desired and kept faith in, is that open door. I have felt a humbling sense of being powerful since I was born, but confuse myself on how to express it.
Hi Ashley, thank you for sharing your experience with Mars, Pluto and Saturn in 12th house. From what you shared, there seems to be a spiritual nuance here that might be important.